New British Made Air Rifle

[eyebull]

...As for new airguns, I am of the opinion that the UK sub 12 law is killing the industry.

How so?
The Germans have a 6 FPE limit but it doesn't seem to stop them selling a large number of airguns domestically and internationally.

[look no hands]

How so?
The Germans have a 6 FPE limit but it doesn't seem to stop them selling a large number of airguns domestically and internationally.

That's only because people would rather spend their money on German stuff than buy British, one of the reasons we don't have a decent airgun, car, bike etc industry is down to management, we have some of the best minds in the world when it comes to engineering, it's just they can't hold it all together because of bad management and the lack of funding and development, at the end of the day it just comes down to profit, if BSA weren't being strangled by Gamo's purse strings then I'm sure they could produce something a bit better, that's why they only use a pin instead of a bolt (but it seems strange how Gamo use a bolt on their rifles), Webley were making some decent rifles before the muppets at AGS sold them down the river and let the Turks take over.

The scary thing is, is it seems to be the small cottage industry style businessman (like Tinbum) who has thrown caution to the wind, who seem to do better than the big ones.

Pete

[wildrover77]

They were written up in AGW last year.

For the rest, BSA has gone, as has Webley. Theoben has gone. AA continues, but absorbed Falcon. S&P/Brocock were legislated away and Brocock is now part of Daystate (I think). As for Parker-Hale, List, Alros... Whiscombe and Mike Childs (Skan) retired.

So the auguries are not good. There are also serious issues around the industrial skills base, productivity, and business overheads.

Basically, to be successful now, you need to make either exclusive luxury items, or price-competitive, feature packed guns that you can make in sufficient volume to attract a big US distributor. I doubt anything British can do the latter, set against the Turks, Spanish and Chinese.

Do they sell many airguns in the states? I though they wee a real niche over there? It was either BB guns or rimfires?

[MartynB]

http://www.pneumaticballistics.com/p...-air-rifle-fac

Anybody got one?

As Gareth said, interesting looing piece of kit. Seems to recall something about them being very well made

[flyingfish]

It seems to me that the "hole in the market" is for a top tier break barrel. I would have thought that someone (AA BSA) could make something to rival the 98

Pete

[eyebull]

That's only because people would rather spend their money on German stuff than buy British, one of the reasons we don't have a decent airgun, car, bike etc industry is down to management, we have some of the best minds in the world when it comes to engineering, it's just they can't hold it all together because of bad management and the lack of funding and development, at the end of the day it just comes down to profit, if BSA weren't being strangled by Gamo's purse strings then I'm sure they could produce something a bit better, that's why they only use a pin instead of a bolt (but it seems strange how Gamo use a bolt on their rifles), Webley were making some decent rifles before the muppets at AGS sold them down the river and let the Turks take over.

So more due to the above than the 12 FPE limit then...

Do they sell many airguns in the states? I though they wee a real niche over there? It was either BB guns or rimfires?

Airguns are becoming increasingly popular over there, but even a niche market in a country of 325 million people equates to a healthy volume of sales. The fact that airguns are almost completely unregulated does help a bit too - not just power-wise, but semi auto, full auto etc. They can take imports from just about anywhere.

[look no hands]

It seems to me that the "hole in the market" is for a top tier break barrel. I would have thought that someone (AA BSA) could make something to rival the 98

Pete

Spot on but AA won't and BSA are not allowed, I read somewhere that BSA kept changing designs for the worse that John Bowkett submitted to them (that's why he does so well with his Blueprinting tunes), if BSA kept the original designs then there wouldn't be all the problems they encountered.

So more due to the above than the 12 FPE limit then.

Most probably.

Pete

[EdSIII]

Here in the states most people who get Airguns are not into the nice guns like HW AA etc, you mostly see the Gamos and the Crosmans and they all pump up the power figures since we have no limits. Whenever I talk to people about quality Airguns they don't get it, mostly interested in power. But back to AA, any idea why they stopped making the Pro Elite break barrel? You hardly ever hear of them but just saw one for sale here for about $900

[bighit]

Spot on but AA won't and BSA are not allowed, I read somewhere that BSA kept changing designs for the worse that John Bowkett submitted to them (that's why he does so well with his Blueprinting tunes), if BSA kept the original designs then there wouldn't be all the problems they encountered.



Pete

I dare say the money men made the decisions in the case of BSA. you can design an all bells and whistles product but when the accountants get their say it can turn into a turd.

[clarky]

I dare say the money men made the decisions in the case of BSA. you can design an all bells and whistles product but when the accountants get their say it can turn into a turd.

maybe one day someone will design a beautiful slim stocked field gun......but i doubt it.
Something like a 410 shotgun style stock ....simple action and some nice simple opens..
Id buy it anyway......but sadly such a gun lost and forgotten.
....and thus we contend with trawling the adverts to find something which has a raised comb less than 2 ft high.
Why cannot any manufaturer produce a shotgun type trigger guard....with atleast some semblence of style and tradition.
Has anyone seen the one on the new FWB Sport....for crying out loud ....what on earth....how can something look so bad for doing something ever so simple!
Take a look at a trigger guard on a 1930 s .22.....
Maybe designers dont know how guns should look.....maybe they all died out.

[Geezer]

Do they sell many airguns in the states? I though they wee a real niche over there? It was either BB guns or rimfires?

According to an estimate in 1995, about 3 million airguns were sold each year in the US. Even if half of them are BB guns, that leaves a big market, although a niche one compared to the 27 million firearms sold in the US in 2016.

How big is the UK airgun market? Anyone know?

[BigDuncs]

I dare say the money men made the decisions in the case of BSA. you can design an all bells and whistles product but when the accountants get their say it can turn into a turd.

Truth here. I know that John Bowkett was frustrated when parts of his design were made in plastic/polymer or whatever instead of his spec.

But it's more than that. I wanted to buy a R10 at the shooting show a couple of years ago and I went onto the BSA stand to ask about the model and was totally ignored. The 'salesmen' were more interested in texting and chatting socially on their mobiles than serving customers....

[aris]

British air guns are fairly popular in the US

I could be wrong but could it be that the majority of British made air gun sales are in the US where they are seen as a premium product? Purely down to size of market.

[Mach 1.5]

New British Rifle....why? If it's not going to be all singing and dancing and be better than what's gone before then no wonder one hasn't been produced. Would it be better than an Omega, Tomahawk, Longbow...then what is the point of the investment and tooling cost! It may be as good but better? Hence why the big boys will not invest because they would be trying to re invent the wheel? If they did produce a super gun then in 10 years time we would be asking the same question. I used my friends Mach 1 the other day made in 1987....it maybe equalled but never bettered! Mach 1.5

[bighit]

According to an estimate in 1995, about 3 million airguns were sold each year in the US. Even if half of them are BB guns, that leaves a big market, although a niche one compared to the 27 million firearms sold in the US in 2016.

How big is the UK airgun market? Anyone know?

the Scottish Government claims 500.000 in Scotland alone over the years. that claim was back in 2005 I think.

could be lower than their claim or higher since that date .