New British Made Air Rifle

[bighit]

maybe one day someone will design a beautiful slim stocked field gun......but i doubt it.
Something like a 410 shotgun style stock ....simple action and some nice simple opens..
Id buy it anyway......but sadly such a gun lost and forgotten.
....and thus we contend with trawling the adverts to find something which has a raised comb less than 2 ft high.
Why cannot any manufaturer produce a shotgun type trigger guard....with atleast some semblence of style and tradition.
Has anyone seen the one on the new FWB Sport....for crying out loud ....what on earth....how can something look so bad for doing something ever so simple!
Take a look at a trigger guard on a 1930 s .22.....
Maybe designers dont know how guns should look.....maybe they all died out.

designs or expectations change over time.

go back 20 years or so. would you have though a rifle that looked like a child had made it out of meccano would be popular in years to come?

some airguns look like rayguns from the future .


some people will say a traditional airgun design is boring and buy a meccano rifle and designers see that in the sales trends .


if more bullpup or meccano rifles are selling that traditional, what are they going to spend the R&D money on?

a big selling rifle they can't keep up with the demand for or a traditional rifle that only sell to traditional type rifle buyers ?


supply and demand dictates in the accountants minds not tradition .

[clarky]

designs or expectations change over time.

go back 20 years or so. would you have though a rifle that looked like a child had made it out of meccano would be popular in years to come?

some airguns look like rayguns from the future .


some people will say a traditional airgun design is boring and buy a meccano rifle and designers see that in the sales trends .


if more bullpup or meccano rifles are selling that traditional, what are they going to spend the R&D money on?

a big selling rifle they can't keep up with the demand for or a traditional rifle that only sell to traditional type rifle buyers ?


supply and demand dictates in the accountants minds not tradition .

I agree with your feelings of progress or trend but what about if you dont like ray guns...
Im really suggesting what about ...just for once ....esp given the post is reg British manufacturer....that a throwback traditional arm would be cool ..

[bighit]

I agree with your feelings of progress or trend but what about if you dont like ray guns...
Im really suggesting what about ...just for once ....esp given the post is reg British manufacturer....that a throwback traditional arm would be cool ..

it would be good to see throwback traditional rifle but will there be enough buyers wanting to buy them?

and will it be too pricey as they will no doubt want to recoup all the costs from making them and limited sales?

there could be more raygun type buyers than traditional buyers due to the generations and what is in "fashion".

[Geezer]

I agree with your feelings of progress or trend but what about if you dont like ray guns...
Im really suggesting what about ...just for once ....esp given the post is reg British manufacturer....that a throwback traditional arm would be cool ..

Already exists - ISP Spartan.

[Hsing-ee]

if BSA weren't being strangled by Gamo's purse strings then I'm sure they could produce something a bit better, that's why they only use a pin instead of a bolt (but it seems strange how Gamo use a bolt on their rifles)

Pete

It IS strange that BSA thought a pin would do way back in the 1970s when Haenel, Relum, the Shanghai Airgun Factory Number 1 or whoever produced the 'Arrow' air-rifle in China etc etc ... all of them inferior brands managed to use a bolt. The cutting of a screw thread and the use of a bolt must have added almost nothing to the price of a rifle, so why didn't they do it until it was too late? Arrogance? Stupidity? A mixture of the both ('Arrogidity)? The idea that 'barely good enough' is the same as striving for excellence? All they had to do is buy an HW35 and take it apart, steal the good ideas (breech bolt, active sear in trigger unit, proper scope grooves) and Bob's your Aunt Fanny. But no, they made mad things like the BSA Buccaneer because it was the shortest distance between doing some development work and getting cash back (stick a pistol which is already in production in a placcky stock with a longer barrel) or the borderline insane like the VS2000, the 'B-58' of airguns. They are lucky that John Bowkett was around to save their complacent arse with a decent raft of ideas for PCPs.

BSA is a PCP company now, the springer branch is a zombie division. None of them are as good as the quality products they once made like the Airsporter Mk 1 and Mk 2 and the swansong SuperStar.

[Geezer]

It IS strange that BSA thought a pin would do way back in the 1970s when Haenel, Relum, the Shanghai Airgun Factory Number 1 or whoever produced the 'Arrow' air-rifle in China etc etc ... all of them inferior brands managed to use a bolt. The cutting of a screw thread and the use of a bolt must have added almost nothing to the price of a rifle, so why didn't they do it until it was too late? Arrogance? Stupidity? A mixture of the both ('Arrogidity)? The idea that 'barely good enough' is the same as striving for excellence? All they had to do is buy an HW35 and take it apart, steal the good ideas (breech bolt, active sear in trigger unit, proper scope grooves) and Bob's your Aunt Fanny. But no, they made mad things like the BSA Buccaneer because it was the shortest distance between doing some development work and getting cash back (stick a pistol which is already in production in a placcky stock with a longer barrel) or the borderline insane like the VS2000, the 'B-58' of airguns. They are lucky that John Bowkett was around to save their complacent arse with a decent raft of ideas for PCPs.

BSA is a PCP company now, the springer branch is a zombie division. None of them are as good as the quality products they once made like the Airsporter Mk 1 and Mk 2 and the swansong SuperStar.

Webley was just as bad. Oddly similar to British car manufacturing at the same time. Turning out inferior products with poor quality control apparently because they assumed people would "buy British". And when they had an interesting idea (Rover SD1, Triumph TR7, Austin Princess) they still managed to bugger it up in practice.

[flyingfish]

Webley was just as bad. Oddly similar to British car manufacturing at the same time. Turning out inferior products with poor quality control apparently because they assumed people would "buy British". And when they had an interesting idea (Rover SD1, Triumph TR7, Austin Princess) they still managed to bugger it up in practice.

I was going to mention the British bike industry. No one will buy little bikes I will they?

Pete

[look no hands]

maybe one day someone will design a beautiful slim stocked field gun......but i doubt it.
Something like a 410 shotgun style stock ....simple action and some nice simple opens..
Id buy it anyway......but sadly such a gun lost and forgotten.
....and thus we contend with trawling the adverts to find something which has a raised comb less than 2 ft high.
Why cannot any manufaturer produce a shotgun type trigger guard....with atleast some semblence of style and tradition.
Has anyone seen the one on the new FWB Sport....for crying out loud ....what on earth....how can something look so bad for doing something ever so simple!
Take a look at a trigger guard on a 1930 s .22.....
Maybe designers dont know how guns should look.....maybe they all died out.

Well I could suggest the BSA Mercury/Challenger/Airsporter (but I'd probably get shot down in flames) and the other rifle I'd say is stunningly elegant is the RWS Rapier/Excalibre but they are not British.

It IS strange that BSA thought a pin would do way back in the 1970s when Haenel, Relum, the Shanghai Airgun Factory Number 1 or whoever produced the 'Arrow' air-rifle in China etc etc ... all of them inferior brands managed to use a bolt. The cutting of a screw thread and the use of a bolt must have added almost nothing to the price of a rifle, so why didn't they do it until it was too late? Arrogance? Stupidity? A mixture of the both ('Arrogidity)? The idea that 'barely good enough' is the same as striving for excellence? All they had to do is buy an HW35 and take it apart, steal the good ideas (breech bolt, active sear in trigger unit, proper scope grooves) and Bob's your Aunt Fanny. But no, they made mad things like the BSA Buccaneer because it was the shortest distance between doing some development work and getting cash back (stick a pistol which is already in production in a placcky stock with a longer barrel) or the borderline insane like the VS2000, the 'B-58' of airguns. They are lucky that John Bowkett was around to save their complacent arse with a decent raft of ideas for PCPs.

BSA is a PCP company now, the springer branch is a zombie division. None of them are as good as the quality products they once made like the Airsporter Mk 1 and Mk 2 and the swansong SuperStar.

The strange and annoying thing is, is that BSA actually added a bolt to the later Mercury (replacing the pin) that followed onto the Challenger, they then added a bolt to the Supersport SS model so it was done, so why they couldn't have just kept it production is beyond me.

Pete

[clarky]

it would be good to see throwback traditional rifle but will there be enough buyers wanting to buy them?

and will it be too pricey as they will no doubt want to recoup all the costs from making them and limited sales?

there could be more raygun type buyers than traditional buyers due to the generations and what is in "fashion".

well with the constant moan of just about all of my club fellow....i think there would be a market.

[clarky]

Well I could suggest the BSA Mercury/Challenger/Airsporter (but I'd probably get shot down in flames) and the other rifle I'd say is stunningly elegant is the RWS Rapier/Excalibre but they are not British.



The strange and annoying thing is, is that BSA actually added a bolt to the later Mercury (replacing the pin) that followed onto the Challenger, they then added a bolt to the Supersport SS model so it was done, so why they couldn't have just kept it production is beyond me.

Pete

...totally agree...
The guns that followed that Mercury never shot as well and no BSA was sleeker...
No idea why the Mercury line was ever stopped .

[Hsing-ee]

The strange and annoying thing is, is that BSA actually added a bolt to the later Mercury (replacing the pin) that followed onto the Challenger, they then added a bolt to the Supersport SS model so it was done, so why they couldn't have just kept it production is beyond me.

Pete

I think, with the odd exception like yourself, the average BSA break-barrel shooter lacked the discernment (or even the intelligence) to notice something like that sort of poor engineering. They bought them to can-bash, rat-smash and chest-shoot the odd unfortunate Benjamin Bunny. It was only the afficionados who would worry about head-shots on pigeons, and to do that out of the box you needed a German rifle. I think most BSA break-barrel shooters are still the same types, who buy on the basis that their Grandpa recommended them and 'we won the War'.

[buttloaves]

Pax guns Phoenix is british is it not.

[clarky]

I think, with the odd exception like yourself, the average BSA break-barrel shooter lacked the discernment (or even the intelligence) to notice something like that sort of poor engineering. They bought them to can-bash, rat-smash and chest-shoot the odd unfortunate Benjamin Bunny. It was only the afficionados who would worry about head-shots on pigeons, and to do that out of the box you needed a German rifle. I think most BSA break-barrel shooters are still the same types, who buy on the basis that their Grandpa recommended them and 'we won the War'.

...but in reality the Mercury and Mercury S would out shoot a then HW35 for fun.
The std. Mercury had a much nicer shot cycle than the none tune technology for the 35 at that time and shooting at barely more than 10 ftlbs too.
It was only the advent of the
FWB Sport and later HW77 that saw off the Mercury S but it still had its fans.
The BSF range are seen with rosey tinted specs....shockingly over sprung and poorly made triggers never really realised the outlandish claims made in AGW at the time.
Still nice sleek and simple rifles all the same.

[bighit]

well with the constant moan of just about all of my club fellow....i think there would be a market.

I dare say they would need more buyers than just ones at your club

[TonyL]

...but in reality the Mercury and Mercury S would out shoot a then HW35 for fun.
The std. Mercury had a much nicer shot cycle than the none tune technology for the 35 at that time and shooting at barely more than 10 ftlbs too.
It was only the advent of the
FWB Sport and later HW77 that saw off the Mercury S but it still had its fans.
The BSF range are seen with rosey tinted specs....shockingly over sprung and poorly made triggers never really realised the outlandish claims made in AGW at the time.
Still nice sleek and simple rifles all the same.

Agree with some of this but not all.....

My first "proper hunting break barrel" was a Mercury. A "wobbly, pin" one. And I learned that rifle inside out and we had many successful rabbiting and ratting forays. But when I first then looked inside a HW35 and then my FWB 127, it became apparent that internal finish / quality of engineering / solidity of build / materials were poor relations to the German rifles. I later also owned a Challenger (complete with daft sxope rail) and that wasn't really much better. And, yes, it did have a bolt, but it wasn't the mega solid one as used by Weihrauch and, as up above, some more "budget" rifles.

Firing cycle as standard, maybe the Mercury was a little nicer than a 35. But by the late 70s, many could perform a simple "spit and polish" fettle, which then transformed the 35's manners. And the triggers were far superior, aiding longer range consistently repeatable accuracy.

As you say, the arrival of the 77 was probably the final nail in the coffin. Webley did fight back with the Omega and Eclipse, but it was too late.

I have, however, had a couple of tries with the Superstar and find it a lovely rifle to shoot. Nice underlever catch, too.

And then we had the Venom inspired lovely Brum Longbow......