Webley was in at the start of pcp.....raider for one
Evening all...... I was pondering this question and thought I'd pose it to experts. Webley produced some of the best springers out there..... Omega, Longbow, etc.
Was it because they didn't get ahead of the game when those new-fangled PCP's were all the rage, or something else?
Cheers
Dunk
"Every normal man must be tempted at times, to spit on his hands, raise the black flag & start slitting throats"
Webley was in at the start of pcp.....raider for one
One reason was that the top brass thought they had more knowledge than Ivan Hancock and Steve Pope and wouldn't listen to there comments or ideas!!! Mach 1.5
Not keeping up with other manufacturers, relying on past reputation and mismanagement.
I've got a bit of 80's nostalgia in me at the moment, my favourite guns are a 1981 HW80 and a 1987 HW77K, just pure pleasure to shoot. If you look back at that time BSA and Wembley could just not compete with that level of design and efficiency, then add the Rekord trigger, still unmatched on a springer after nearly 65 years!
Then you move into the realms of PCP's, the Rapid, still in my view the best gun ever made, then you have th S410 still going and competing on all levels, as Weihrauch they hit the ground running with the HW100. If you look at the efforts from Webley and BSA you have your answer.
Great question !
Trigger.
The management refused to invest, refused to build something better that could shoot beyond the farmyard, and blankly refused to build in a better quality trigger. They just couldn't see where airguns were going or what money the consumer would be prepared to pay for something better.
A Webley Vulcan deluxe had the same price as a HW80! BSA was almost as bad.
At the end of the day it came down to lack of imagination and lack of investment in machinery. Also everyone was paid handsomely without warranting it. Well thats what I think.
Sadly, they weren't the only example in British industry that just couldn't keep up with the times. All flogging a tired old horse, and surprised when it dropped dead.
Try the same pistol for 70 years.
The same powerplant, same barrel, same sight adjustment, same trigger mechanics.....and same performance...
So they been making a pistol for 70 years but HW comes out with 3 new ones all better in about 1 year.
There is no need to ask the question!
The Stiff Upper Lip type management from the 1920's to the 1970's killed off most of Britain's great companies
,AA , Magtech , Arnie, Sako, Ruger . plus the others .
This seems to have been a problem throughout British industry, hope its changing. I came back to UK after 22 years in South Africa. Was stunned at the way companies were run in a blinkered negative way. Before you put forward an idea they answer was already prepared as "NO". One experience I had was dealing with huge supermarket customers with trolley problems. A local one here had a slightly sloping car park and loaded trollies were running away sideways with the customers unable to guide them. I said overseas they use two fixed castors at the back and two swivel at the front which makes them easy to guide. The company tried every weird way to overcome the problem but would not listen to me and never solved it. Spent a fortune, and this was a typical example.
Baz
Last edited by Benelli B76; 23-04-2017 at 08:21 AM.
BE AN INDEPENDENT THINKER, DON'T FOLLOW THE CROWD
I think lack of advertisement/marketing in export countries.
There was nothing wrong with Stongray/Longbow triggers. They werent 'worse' than comparable T05 Diana triggers, which is/was a good, decent, trigger. And I actually prefer the Lb triggers above the long sluggish Record. The Lb triggers are far shorter in travel than a standard Record can ever be.
Webley build quality was far abóve the competition; havent seen better blueing than on Webley high end rifles. HW/Diana/AA couldnt get on par with that.
But, at least here in the netherlands, they werent marketed at all. So they sold badly. They were also quite steep in price. Probably also because they were from across the pond instead of from the country next door.
Lesser known brands are always more difficult to sell. People, most of them anyway, look at what their neighbor has. They are herd people. And the herd has HW. Easy.
Also, with FT etc becoming more popular, underlevers became more popular and Webley didnt have 1 (after discontinuing the Eclipse) and the Eclipse couldnt compete.
Dunno much about PCP's, Im into springers, but the 2shot PCPs I've never understood. I think that wasnt a seller either. You dont see any 2shot pcp's anymore either. For a reason. Its all 5/10 shot.
So the internal adjustment to market wishes was also a bit lacking. And tháts deadly. You have to give the customer what it wants or they wont buy.
ATB,
yana
What killed Webley.
Easy: Weihrauch!
Never go off half cocked....
All lies matter
I think maybe they just lost their way...
Pre-war and just afterwards they company tried to produce the highest quality air guns made to firearms standards.
They cost a fortune to make and had a high selling price.
Rumour has it they were losing money on every Service rifle and Senior pistol they sold...
So then they tried cheapening their existing designs to make money and the trouble there is that once you've offered a high quality product and then try to take it away - the public can see what you've done and expect a lower selling price.
Then add to this the timing...
The war had not long finished, companies had bugger all money to invest, machinery was knackered from years of wartime production and the labour pool was in a state of flux.
Contrast this with Germany - who had all their designs nicked by the British as war reparations and had their factories flattened.
So they ended with new factories and came up with new designs being made on new machinery.
Meanwhile in Blighty the 'make do and mend' mentality was firmly entrenched while the customers were patriotic to start with this quickly changed as the next generation came along who were less tethered to the past and whilst their employment might be governed by the old guard, their spending most certainly was not and the new German rifles were very well made and better than the by now, old British offerings.
Reverse the question and look at what made Daystate and Air Arms successful.
Both Webley and BSA airguns were poorly marketed here in Canada. Growing up in the 1960s and 1970s, I seldom saw British airguns being advertised or sold in Canadian sporting goods stores. I recall seeing mostly Crosman, Daisy and Sylvia products.