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Thread: Latest re: Steyr LP50

  1. #31
    eyebull's Avatar
    eyebull is offline Even a stopped clock is right twice a day
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    70k to 80k sold and 5k to 6k licensed or handed in apparently.
    I'm sure the rest have been converted by underworld gunsmiths to fire hot .357 magnum loads
    Good deals with these members

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    That isn't correct. Air pistols such as Brococks are sub 6ft-lb and are Section 5, because they are defined in Section 5 af
    I never said it though

    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    Well, Sir, I'm not an ex-police inspector, but I am an experienced crown witness on firearms-related offences captured on imagery with many court appearances, including the Old Bailey, to my credit.

    I am therefore well aware of the penalties of using anything that either IS, or PURPORTS to be, a firearm as described in law

    Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't.

    Air rifles up to 12 ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't.

    These are absolute determining factors, not '6ft lbs or thereabouts'.





    tac

    The wording from the CPS

    Any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon: section 5(1)(af) Firearms Act 1968 e.g. a Brocock

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocksure View Post

    Semi auto, gassers, Steyr...the trigger pull moves the next projectile in first stage, and fires it in second leaving the chamber empty.....EMPTY unless trigger is pulled again.
    No, that's double action.

    Semi Auto, once the action has cycled puts a pellet into the chamber/barrel. The action of pulling the trigger releases the air which propels it.

    Double action, the chamber is empty after the previous shot, the action of pulling the trigger puts a pellet into the chamber/barrel and the the trigger releases the air which propels it. That's why it's called double action.

    Double action is what you typically find on a revolver, not that it matters as revolvers are exempted.

    The advice from the CPS is just that. The law however has not been changed. Semi-auto air rifles, pistols or not, are as per described in ab

    any self-loading or pump-action [F10rifled gun] other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges;
    What would be really nice is if the act was amended as per clause ac which covers smooth bores, because that removes air guns explicity from that clause.

    any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not [an air weapon or] chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or F14. . . is less than 40 inches in length overall;
    The difference is notable.

    It's almost without doubt not the intention to cover air rifles/pistols, which is why the HO gave out the advice not to prosecute the small number in existance in the uk 20 years ago. That situation may have changed (the numbers) and the law still hasn't.

    We've done this to death, but the HO themselves have stated the law hasn't changed, they're illegal. What they do about it is up to them... it isn't pretty, it's not what anyone would like, but that's it.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    I'm sure the rest have been converted by underworld gunsmiths to fire hot .357 magnum loads
    I wonder if the number registered or handed in includes ones exported by uk owners. figures are for any brand that used the TACs or BACs cartridges

    http://www.airgunmagazine.co.uk/feat...0-years-after/

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    this was my point


    Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms. More than that and you must have an FAC - less and you don't

    Sorry, I interpreted that as you saying Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms... cos, you said Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms

    Sect 5 draws in what is covered in it's section. Things don't apply to it unless they're stated in it. Things that don't apply to the rest of the act are exempt under the rules. Section 5 explicitly mentions air pistols/rifles (i hate the word weapon), so clearly any air pistol/rifle is still considered subject to it, and this we know.

    There's no wriggle on this. Experts, ie the HO, have stated their case. I don't think that's someone unqualified to do so either. The CPS guidance is just that. The HO states that it doesn't change the law, and that all it means is they won't prosecute. It doesn't mean they won't confiscate, which is what has happened.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Sorry, I interpreted that as you saying Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms... cos, you said Air pistols up to 6ft lbs m/e are NOT classed as firearms

    Sect 5 draws in what is covered in it's section. Things don't apply to it unless they're stated in it. Things that don't apply to the rest of the act are exempt under the rules. Section 5 explicitly mentions air pistols/rifles (i hate the word weapon), so clearly any air pistol/rifle is still considered subject to it, and this we know.

    There's no wriggle on this. Experts, ie the HO, have stated their case. I don't think that's someone unqualified to do so either. The CPS guidance is just that. The HO states that it doesn't change the law, and that all it means is they won't prosecute. It doesn't mean they won't confiscate, which is what has happened.
    see post #32

    .i think the legislation needs updated and written in a away that the average Joe on the street can read it in laymens terms and not need a Philadelphia lawyer to tell you what it means .

    I bet the people in charge of the firearms offices are as muddled up with it as we are .

  7. #37
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    [QUOTE=RobF;7245754]No, that's double action.

    Semi Auto, once the action has cycled puts a pellet into the chamber/barrel. The action of pulling the trigger releases the air which propels it.

    Double action, the chamber is empty after the previous shot, the action of pulling the trigger puts a pellet into the chamber/barrel and the the trigger releases the air which propels it. That's why it's called double action.

    Double action is what you typically find on a revolver, not that it matters as revolvers are exempted.

    The advice from the CPS is just that. The law however has not been changed. Semi-auto air rifles, pistols or not, are as per described in ab



    What would be really nice is if the act was amended as per clause ac which covers smooth bores, because that removes air guns explicity from that clause.
    /QUOTE]

    I was trying to avoid confusion with 'two stage' and keep it simple..ish. And revolvers.....but double action is the correct term. So semi-auto.And banned.
    Last edited by Cocksure; 25-04-2017 at 02:43 PM. Reason: Rob gave me a semi.....

  8. #38
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    I always understood the "fire" part of firearm to be the defining word.

    Early fire locks were so called because the ball was propelled by a very fast acting fire in the chamber.

    I have always associated the word "firearms" with powder burners.

    Perhaps the use of a more neutral term like word "gun"would be more appropriate.

    We could then call them "airguns" in order to distinguish them from firearms.

    Or spud guns, nail guns, water guns, etc.

    If you told an American a Crosman 1377 was a firearm he would probably be very amused.
    Arthur

    I wish I was in the land of cotton.

  9. #39
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    Help me out here please Rob...

    This Steyr has upset the Po-Po because they deem it semi-auto and the power thing is a distraction?

    Quite simply semi's are illegal?

    Well lock me up and throw away the key 'cause I just had a look at the Steyr pistol......and now I have a semi.

    Also can't see semi-auto anywhere, self loading yep, but not semi-auto.

    So again do we read self loading as semi-auto......and should we all sprokonsey the same linguay...?
    Last edited by Cocksure; 25-04-2017 at 03:04 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocksure View Post
    Help me out here please Rob...

    This Steyr has upset the Po-Po because they deem it semi-auto and the power thing is a distraction?

    Quite simply semi's are illegal?

    Well lock me up and throw away the key 'cause I just had a look at the Steyr pistol......and now I have a semi.

    Also can't see semi-auto anywhere, self loading yep, but not semi-auto.

    So again do we read self loading as semi-auto......and should we all sprokonsey the same linguay...?
    It doesn't matter what you call it, it doesn't change what it is. It's semi auto (unless someone takes it apart and declares it otherwise, which, so far, they haven't)

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur John Smithsplease View Post
    I always understood the "fire" part of firearm to be the defining word.

    Early fire locks were so called because the ball was propelled by a very fast acting fire in the chamber.

    I have always associated the word "firearms" with powder burners.

    Perhaps the use of a more neutral term like word "gun"would be more appropriate.

    We could then call them "airguns" in order to distinguish them from firearms.

    Or spud guns, nail guns, water guns, etc.

    If you told an American a Crosman 1377 was a firearm he would probably be very amused.
    Firearms are what the legislation calls them by definition. The same as weapons, I agree, both are inaccurate terms. Unfortunately it doesn't change anything.

    You're bound to find someone saying the dieseling in springers makes fire now... that's the internet for you.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    see post #32

    .i think the legislation needs updated and written in a away that the average Joe on the street can read it in laymens terms and not need a Philadelphia lawyer to tell you what it means .

    I bet the people in charge of the firearms offices are as muddled up with it as we are .
    Maybe. I think it could do with a scrap and re-write. Either way that requires parliament to do it (unless the Home Sec can be persuaded to alter the special rules). I kind of think though fiddling with a bit of the act to suit a few 100 or maybe even a few 1000 people is probably right at the bottom of the must-do pile.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    It doesn't matter what you call it, it doesn't change what it is. It's semi auto (unless someone takes it apart and declares it otherwise, which, so far, they haven't)
    HO use the term self-loading, should we?

    And I wish North Yorkshire police authority would call a spade...a spade,

    Instead of keep calling it a fekin' shovel!!!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. It's semantics then, rather than fact?

    Possession of a firearm necessitates having a firearms certificate.

    But a 6/12 ft lb airgun is a firearm that does NOT require a firearms certificate.

    I'm obviously missing something here that is deeply significant. Please explain.

    tac
    You are missing the fact that others are as capable of reading the written word as you are.

    You are also trying to apply your own definition of what constitutes a firearm (i.e. anything requiring a certificate) whereas you should be using the definitions in the relevant legislation, especially given the importance of your role in the legislative system.
    Happy Shooting!! Paul.
    "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking that we used when we created them" - Albert Einstein.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Firearms are what the legislation calls them by definition. The same as weapons, I agree, both are inaccurate terms. Unfortunately it doesn't change anything.

    You're bound to find someone saying the dieseling in springers makes fire now... that's the internet for you.
    Precisely.
    Happy Shooting!! Paul.
    "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking that we used when we created them" - Albert Einstein.

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