Latest re: Steyr LP50

[Cocksure]

If you carry a hammer with intent it becomes an illegal weapon, until then it remains just a hammer...do you follow?

[Brian.Samson]

airguns are only subject to firearms law IF THEY FIT THE DESCRIPTION OF A FIREARM

Absolutely correct there Tom

And the description in the Firearms Act ( Section 57) of what a Firearm is is this :

"In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged"

That most definitely includes air guns, which can be (and sadly have been) lethal. (It doesn't include hammers though)

[Cocksure]

Absolutely correct there Tom

And the description in the Firearms Act ( Section 57) of what a Firearm is is this :

"In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged"

That most definitely includes air guns, which can be (and sadly have been) lethal.

Bugger off!

[Cocksure]

Absolutely correct there Tom

And the description in the Firearms Act ( Section 57) of what a Firearm is is this :

"In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged"

That most definitely includes air guns, which can be (and sadly have been) lethal. (It doesn't include hammers though)

It then goes to some lengths in order to describe when a lethally barrelled weapon is exempt..ie when it's an airgun. Simple enough Bri?

And the Steyr should be exempt....I rest my case. 'Cause typing on this phone is a nightmare!!!

[RobF]

Air weapons are exempt from conditions imposed on firearms.

No they aren't.

Even if what you alluded to was true (which it isn't), if you commit an offence with an airgun you are prosecuted under a firearms offence. That's because airguns, under the act, are firearms.

Some don't require a license because they fall outside of a section of the act, others do, because the are explicitly described as such. An example is a Brockock, which is under 6ft-lb but described in Section 5 as using a self contained cartridge. A semi auto is also described.

[RobF]

And airguns are only subject to firearms law IF THEY FIT THE DESCRIPTION OF A FIREARM

Wrong. Airguns are firearms, under the act. Just because they don't breath fire doesn't make any difference.

[RobF]

It then goes to some lengths in order to describe when a lethally barrelled weapon is exempt..ie when it's an airgun. Simple enough Bri?

And later it then goes on in Section 5 to say which ones aren't. Semi auto and cartridge.

[Cocksure]

No they aren't.

Even if what you alluded to was true (which it isn't), if you commit an offence with an airgun you are prosecuted under a firearms offence. That's because airguns, under the act, are firearms.

Some don't require a license because they fall outside of a section of the act, others do, because the are explicitly described as such. An example is a Brockock, which is under 6ft-lb but described in Section 5 as using a self contained cartridge. A semi auto is also described.

Just because it uses air DON'T make it an airgun...the guns you describe fit the conditions of a firearm, thats why they're firearms....if they were to fit the clear, concise description of an airgun, which they don't, then they would not be subject to firearm conditions....

[Cocksure]

And later it then goes on in Section 5 to say which ones aren't. Semi auto and cartridge.

You said it mister......

[RobF]

So if a sub 12ft lb pump is illegal, so is a Steyr hunting 5 rifle. (Steyr calls it 'automatic' which is not a good start!)

With the Steyr, I guess the argument centres on the definition of 'loading'. (Ignoring the main issue of sub 12 rifles and sub 6 pistols being outside the scope of the firearms act). The mag indexes automatically, but the pellet isn't loaded into the breech. Of course there isn't a breech as such anyway. You could argue that the mag is actually 5 breeches in a row?

Anyway, a pump action pcp rifle would be really nice! So would an auto indexing one!

Section 57 2a

In this Act “self-loading” and “pump-action” in relation to any weapon mean respectively that it is designed or adapted (otherwise than as mentioned in section 5(1)(a)) so that it is automatically re-loaded

Section 57 6b

a shot gun or an air weapon shall be deemed to be loaded if there is ammunition in the chamber or barrel or in any magazine or other device which is in such a position that the ammunition can be fed into the chamber or barrel by the manual or automatic operation of some part of the gun or weapon.

The places a pellet into the chamber which means it's considered loaded. It does this after the trigger has been operated, thus is considered semi auto. Different from a revolver which revolves and is mentioned specificly in the act.

[Cocksure]

Wrong. Airguns are firearms, under the act. Just because they don't breath fire doesn't make any difference.

See above.....just because they use air etc...

You know when religionists only quote the bit of the book that suits them.......oooh it makes me mad!

[RobF]

Just because it uses air DON'T make it an airgun...the guns you describe fit the conditions of a firearm, thats why they're firearms....if they were to fit the clear, concise description of an airgun, which they don't, then they would not be subject to firearm conditions....

It is nothing to do with what they use. End of.

[RobF]

See above.....just because they use air etc...

You know when religionists only quote the bit of the book that suits them.......oooh it makes me mad!

Nothing to do with what they use.

There is no bit that suits and another that doesn't. Anything that uses air, gas, or anything else, if it fits the act, then it's covered by it. Just because you don't like it, don't understand it, or don't care about it or any other don't you care to mention, doesn't change it. Tough titty I know but it doesn't change a thing.

Have a tantrum all you like. Won't change a thing.

Cry a river all you like, someone may bring a box of tissues... won't change a thing.

[RobF]

You said it mister......

Yes, which ones aren't exempt.

Semi and cartridge.

Aren't exempt.

Section 5.

If you want it from the horses mouth, contact the Home Office, or read their statement on STB where they say Semi Auto Airguns are Section 5.

[Cocksure]

If I rob a bank with a cucumber in a plastic bag that I say is a gun,I would be prosecuted under the firearms laws...does this make a normal cucumber a firearm, no. It becomes a firearm when used as one, outside of the normal description of a cucumber.....same with exempt airguns, they remain exempt until they are used in such a way as to be deemed a firearm, ie in the commission of a crime, over powered...etc..etc.

Until then it's just an airgun and is exempt from laws applied to firearms.