Which air rifles have choke - and why?

[bighit]

Thanks for the last two posts, just goes to show it's not what you knw it's who you know - no offence intended!

Great info.

until some one comes up with 100% proof the argument will go on and on.

if a company makes choked and unchoked it may be due to customer demands rather than accuracy.

do remember john budd saying his theoben gas ram barrel was unchoked and I'm sure he said it may have been for the Prometheus pellets at the time. this was his quote .

This one is around a 12" barrel. It is stamped U/C, which I can only assume means Unchoked , maybe for the Prometheus pellets around at the time


also H&N said this in toms post


What is a choke?
A choked barrel refers to a reduction in the bore dimensions at the muzzle of the gun. The purpose for this reduction, according to pellet makers at Handler & Naterman (H&N), is to size all pellets just before they leave the gun. It ensures uniformity.


who knows who is right?

[lensman57]

Who cares as long as the gun is accurate and if it is not then it makes no difference whether it is choked or not.

A.G

[Artfull-Bodger]

Who cares as long as the gun is accurate and if it is not then it makes no difference whether it is choked or not.

A.G

I group tested a HW choked barrel (ungrooved by the way), then cut 4" off the barrel re crowned it and tested again, and guess what happened, bugger all, it shot the same groups, Finding a batch and die that suits your barrel makes a huge difference, but the choke seems a bit of a mystery?

[ballisticboy]

In all that time, I only had to shoot a single group with each barrel to produce a 5-shot group that ranged between 0.25 inches and 0.375 inches at 23 yards (which was the longest straight distance I had inside the old factory). Then, the rifle was packed with the target that I signed and dated and returned to the customer. Case closed.

I find it amazing that anyone who is supposed to be an "expert" should regard a single five shot group size as being adequate proof that a barrel is performing satisfactorily.

[Artfull-Bodger]

I settled on 10x 10 shot groups with each batch of pellets, then take a mean average size because the groups will differ even if you don't fluff any shots.

[Antoni]

I find it amazing that anyone who is supposed to be an "expert" should regard a single five shot group size as being adequate proof that a barrel is performing satisfactorily.

What struck me about that piece was that he said on receiving guns reported to be innaccurate, the first thing he did was to clean them. Would it not have been better to shoot them as received first? Then the signed targets could also prove that cleaning has cured a problem. It could be that the cleaning made no difference and the guns were shooting well as received. The cleaning bit was a bit of a red-herring I thought.

[greenwayjames]

A good deal depends on the type of air rifle the barrels fitted to. Springers may not need a choke but the same does not apply to PCPs or C02 guns. Power levels are another thing to throw into the mix. You cannot generalise when asking if a choke is necessary. Bowket told me that when he was a partner in Titan Developments they bought Walther rifled blanks which they machined, blacked and fitted to all of the guns. At first they used unchoked blanks but the accuracy in .177" was crap. They then got Walther to choke the blanks which transformed the accuracy. Titan then decided to get all calibres choked to speed up production by ruling out the odd rogue barrel. That could be the main reason reason why some manufacturers choke barrels which dont require it.

[bighit]

What struck me about that piece was that he said on receiving guns reported to be innaccurate, the first thing he did was to clean them. Would it not have been better to shoot them as received first? Then the signed targets could also prove that cleaning has cured a problem. It could be that the cleaning made no difference and the guns were shooting well as received. The cleaning bit was a bit of a red-herring I thought.

depends what gunk was in the barrels id guess. start with a clean bore like they recommend when trying to find what pellets suits your barrel . some say if you go from one pellet brand to the next with out cleaning , you wont get a good comparison.

I'm no expert . just what I have read on here and other forums


quote

I find it amazing that anyone who is supposed to be an "expert" should regard a single five shot group size as being adequate proof that a barrel is performing satisfactorily.

end quote

how many people do you see doing the same on youtube or showing targets on forums. I dare say everyone definition of a group is different.


from lothar Walther


Technical specifications:
For the highest accuracy possible, the barrel blanks come with choke, that means a narrowing of the land-groove-diameter up to0,05 mm at the muzzle

http://www.lothar-walther.com/163.php

[Artfull-Bodger]

A good deal depends on the type of air rifle the barrels fitted to. Springers may not need a choke but the same does not apply to PCPs or C02 guns. Power levels are another thing to throw into the mix. You cannot generalise when asking if a choke is necessary. Bowket told me that when he was a partner in Titan Developments they bought Walther rifled blanks which they machined, blacked and fitted to all of the guns. At first they used unchoked blanks but the accuracy in .177" was crap. They then got Walther to choke the blanks which transformed the accuracy. Titan then decided to get all calibres choked to speed up production by ruling out the odd rogue barrel. That could be the main reason reason why some manufacturers choke barrels which dont require it.

That would be a reasonable explanation, if the choke is ensuring a variation in barrel production is minimised it would reduce costs or quality tolerance.

[Geezer]

So, LW say choke is best. Tom G (who has been in and around the industry for 20-30 years) says choke is best. Bowkett says choke is best. HW and - I am pretty sure - Diana use choke. FWB Sports had choke. Theobens had choke except when spec'd for Prometheus.

That feels like a lot of credible views in favour.

What do AA, Daystate, Anschutz, Steyr use? Choke or not?

[bighit]

So, LW say choke is best. Tom G (who has been in and around the industry for 20-30 years) says choke is best. Bowkett says choke is best. HW and - I am pretty sure - Diana use choke. FWB Sports had choke. Theobens had choke except when spec'd for Prometheus.

That feels like a lot of credible views in favour.

What do AA, Daystate, Anschutz, Steyr use? Choke or not?

I guess it depends on whose barrels they use .


a thread here including brands and what the owners say about their barrels

https://www.airrifle.co.za/threads/1...rifle-accuracy

[ballisticboy]

Tom G (who has been in and around the industry for 20-30 years) says choke is best.

New starter then.

[happydad]

This makes intresting reading and may refresh some memories and give a bit more insite to why we have chokes

http://www.airgun.co.uk/Airgun_Accurracy.html

https://youtu.be/HrmWN0igJY0

ATB
Mike

[ballisticboy]

This makes intresting reading and may refresh some memories and give a bit more insite to why we have chokes

http://www.airgun.co.uk/Airgun_Accurracy.html

ATB
Mike

I'm sorry but I have to say that many of the things written in this are some of the biggest load of rubbish I have seen on the internet. The author does not even know what accuracy is let alone what dictates required rifling rates. Saying gun ballistics does not have to deal with a factor of two in velocities (500 and 1000 ft/sec) and thus does not have the problems airguns do shows how little he knows. Many large calibre artillery guns have maximum and minimum velocities that are a factor of three or more different and ballistic theory manages to deal with that ok.
It is sometimes quite depressing that people are reading and believing this kind of bo****ks.

[happydad]

I'm sorry but I have to say that many of the things written in this are some of the biggest load of rubbish I have seen on the internet. The author does not even know what accuracy is let alone what dictates required rifling rates. Saying gun ballistics does not have to deal with a factor of two in velocities (500 and 1000 ft/sec) and thus does not have the problems airguns do shows how little he knows. Many large calibre artillery guns have maximum and minimum velocities that are a factor of three or more different and ballistic theory manages to deal with that ok.
It is sometimes quite depressing that people are reading and believing this kind of bo****ks.

First of all I said it makes intrested reading, I didn't say that I believed it all.

I personal think some people over analysis and try to hard to find the magic formula to getting the best out of their air rifles, it's actually very simple...get-out from behind your computer and go and enjoy your shooting.

Find the best pellet batch that works with your set-up and practice.

I am fortunate to be able to shoot (HFT) every weekend in all weather's and it's the only way to improve your ability, you can throw all kinds of facts and figures at me but, it doesn't make diddle shit! if I'm not doing my part....lack of consetration/tiredness and good night before

ATB
Mike