Do Other Shooters Look Down At Airgun Owners???

[rhyslightnin]

I think you're right, we are sometimes dismissed as playing with boy's toys.

Even the NSRA - and I'm a member - could do more to integrate air into some of the disciplines that are shot with rimfires. I can't see any reason why we can't have a 25 yard (or metre) prone comp that admits air rifles. I came fourth at Bisley in the NSRA ELEY LSR comp two years ago and my prize was 500 rounds of Eley rimfire ammo. Firstly, my S410 isn't chambered for 22RF and secondly I don't have a ticket to hold 22 ammo. The organisers never expected an air rifle to be in contention.

Last week on polling day I was on duty as a poll clerk and I had my coffee mug on the desk with the name of my club emblazoned on it. A chap came in to vote and asked about the mug. Do you shoot, he enquired? Yes, sub 12 fpe air. Can't call that shooting he replied, I'm a qualified marksman with a 0.46 calibre Barrett, shoots a mile or more, that's real shooting. I gave him an invitation to our club as we'd be keen to see how proficient he was.

Be interesting to see what he says when he sees the targets aren't 2 feet wide!

[jumbuck]

it will never stop Chris. same as mountain bikers and road bikers .motorbike riders and moped riders or motocross and enduro motorbike riders.

not all in those groups are bad but there is some that look down on others as you found.

my old boss mocked full bore target shooters. said they were failed hunters that could only hit stationary targets. he was a syndicate owner and also shot rifles at deer and foxes.


it happens in all disciplines of sports or hobbies.

and I don't think it will ever change . be good if they all stuck together and got together when the nimby's *came for them .


* nimby's. not in my back yard.

You are right about the bikers, I have been riding for over 30 years on the road and 40 years riding in total. Done farm riding to compatition motocross I've had big sports bikes and small bike and for the last few years riding an XR250R D reg old girl. Absolutely love riding it and great fun unyet everything on two wheels with an engine has to get past me regardless off sanity and saftey Big bikers have to show how fast they can go as I only have a smaller bike than then... The small bikes look silly struggling to keep up
I ride and shoot for me and what I enjoy regardless of size!!!!!!

[abellringer]

I think the comments so far are just oh so true and sad it is too. A fractured sport is easy pickings, look at the USA where shooters combine and become ultra powerful as a voice for themselves, sadly the bureaucrats running each discipline think they are the gods or dogs******** and possibly could be fearing for their positions if we had a unified body.
On a personal note I owned airguns from about the age of 7[ish] [mid 50's] but got my part one ticket around 1970; I owned and shot full bore pistols and rifles [target only]; I then had a shotgun licence and hunted more than I shot clays [and pretty poor I was at both]. I found the full bore costs a bit too high and began smallbore shooting again pistol and rifle; I found a two way snobbery very evident, the full bore guys deriding the smallbore guys because their 'bang' was puny; the smallbore guys had a downer on the fullbore guys because their targets were the size of a barn door and they couldn't really shoot with any accuracy, plus they were only interested in the 'big bangs'. Eventually I arrived at a 'new' to me small bore club due to a loss of venue by my existing club; I found an unparalleled level of snobbery and clique-ism, I was in lots of comps and better than most other club members, but such was the degree of offhandedness; that to this day [some 40 years on] I still don't know who my team mates were. Then in 1971 my local paper had an advert for an Air Rifle Club opening at Bilston Town Baths; curiosity eventually got the better of me and after a couple of months I ventured down to have a look. BLOODY HELL, THEY ALL NEW EACH OTHERS NAME, greeted everyone like a long lost pal and extended the same courtesy to me from the moment I entered, I later found out that this came from National and Olympic level shooters. What went on, on that night changed my shooting perspective for ever; not too many years later I had no firearms and didn't miss them or the snobbery that went with them. To this day I still find airgun shooters the most friendly and helpful people you could wish to meet and I would like to think over 40 years later, that I can be ranked as amongst the more friendly and helpful group.
So yes there is and always has been a snobbery in shooting be it the 'you'll never hit anything with that, you need one of these' attitudes or the my bang is louder so I'm better variety.
There are always the good guys in any branch of our sport, meet them and become their friend, but like wise there will always be snobs, you'll soon pick them out, be polite nod, etc. then go off and find the good guy again.
AN AIRGUNNER AND OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PROUD TO BE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ATVB
abellringer

[oldskoolzzz]

Hello guys,

I've had airguns since I was a young lad and I would say I have around 25 years of experience with the sport, on and off admittedly, but during this time I feel I have built up a reasonable knowledge of the sport of airgun shooting.

I am in no way an expert but I have owned and handled lots of different air rifles over the years and over the past five years or so I have really tried to improve my knowledge and shooting ability (a big thanks goes out to the BBS members for helping me with this!)

Last weekend I was invited to go shooting with a shotgun owner over a large piece of land, obviously I jumped at the chance and was really looking forward to it but it ended up one of the worst days of shooting I can remember!

My companion was constantly telling me what to do, what I was doing wrong and basically treated me like an idiot.

I'm the kind of guy who keeps his mouth shut in these situations and lets the other person dig a hole for themselves while I pay close attention to their comments but in the end I was pretty pissed off as I'm sure you can imagine.

Anyway we parted ways at the end of the shoot and I decided that I will stick to hunting by myself which I have always done and enjoy much more. Then to my surprise a few days later I received an email from my weekend companion with 'tips' on how I can become a better shooter...now this email was the most patronising thing I have read in my life! I really couldn't believe it as this guy doesn't know me and we have never gone shooting together and he didn't witness me shooting as there was f-all to shoot on his permission. What was most annoying was that half of these 'tips' were complete rubbish

Personally I have respect for the entire shooting community and all the various disciplines but it got me thinking, are airgun owners treated as the 'poor cousins' in the shooting community?

I think a lot of people from a non-shooting background think of air rifles as the old rusty rifle found in grandad's shed or the cheap rifle they used to shoot tins cans with as a kid which I suppose is understandable but is there respect shown to the airgun community from shooters of other disciplines?

Of course there will always be exceptions to the rule and lots of people on here own shotguns, rifles and air rifles but is the attitude shown to me by my weekend shooting partner the 'norm' or is he just a knob?

I know all of the above doesn't really matter and I will continue to love airgun shooting and learning as much as I can about the sport but it has been bugging me the past few days (I know it shouldn't) so I wanted to get it off my chest...sorry for the 'rant' but thanks for reading and I'd really be interested to hear your thoughts on the subject.

All the best,

Chris

I'm intrigued to know what his email tips were go on post them up so we can see what a 'proper' hunter has to say

On a serious note I know exactly where your coming from, I honestly think airgunners are starting to be taken slightly more seriously now than even just a few years ago although most gunshops still think your the weirdo if you head straight to the Airguns on display instead of checking out those non pop guns

Plenty of shooters that I know from my club attend both Airgun and bullet gun side of the club and certainly don't belittle the airgunner.

I can only think of one time where I've had a heated argument with a bullet gun shooter who looked down on me as an airgunner but I truely believe he was more annoyed that my Airgun knowledge left him for dead and he wasn't expecting it.

[chris u'5]

I'm glad it isn't just me then but it's disappointing how fractured the shooting community seems to be.

Surely the sensible thing would be for the entire shooting community in the UK to stick together and support each other.

If we are all only interested in protecting our own disciplines and belittling the others it makes it easier for Government to continue to pick away at the sport?

[eyebull]

I'm glad it isn't just me then but it's disappointing how fractured the shooting community seems to be.

Surely the sensible thing would be for the entire shooting community in the UK to stick together and support each other.

If we are all only interested in protecting our own disciplines and belittling the others it makes it easier for Government to continue to pick away at the sport?

That's exactly what happens. It's very sad.

All I can suggest is, call it out when you see it and don't be part of the problem by doing it yourself.


There was a very interesting article in one of the (centrefire) shooting mags recently - if you count shooters as one unit i.e airgunners, shotgunners, rifleshooters, we outnumber golfers by a considerable margin. The perception seems to be that it's a rare and exotic pastime. We may be niche, but we aren't that niche.
But golfers wouldn't tolerate the shit we do. Golfers wouldn't let themselves be marginalised. Golfers aren't afraid to tell people about their hobby at dinner parties.

The community as a whole needs to buck its ideas up, or it will deserve everything it gets.

[chris u'5]

That's exactly what happens. It's very sad.

All I can suggest is, call it out when you see it and don't be part of the problem by doing it yourself.


There was a very interesting article in one of the (centrefire) shooting mags recently - if you count shooters as one unit i.e airgunners, shotgunners, rifleshooters, we outnumber golfers by a considerable margin. The perception seems to be that it's a rare and exotic pastime. We may be niche, but we aren't that niche.
But golfers wouldn't tolerate the shit we do. Golfers wouldn't let themselves be marginalised. Golfers aren't afraid to tell people about their hobby at dinner parties.

The community as a whole needs to buck its ideas up, or it will deserve everything it gets.

Very interesting.

I do feel almost like I have to hide my passion for shooting air rifles and all things gun related for fear of being labelled as a 'nut' but I am doing nothing wrong, dangerous or illegal.

I wonder what it is like in the US with the NRA? Obviously they are super powerful with a huge membership so my guess is it must be very tight community and not as disjointed as it is here in the UK??

[oldskoolzzz]

I do feel almost like I have to hide my passion for shooting air rifles and all things gun related for fear of being labelled as a 'nut' but I am doing nothing wrong, dangerous or illegal.

Many of us feel like this bud.

Friends, family, work colleagues anyone that is brainwashed that guns are all bad period simply don't understand our passion for our sport.

The few people that actually listen do genuinely seem interested when you explain it to them but it can be damn hard work to those that simply won't listen or have superglued blinkers.

The really weird thing is I've actually listed target sports shooting on my CV down as a hobby and pastime etc and in the past it's been quite a good talking point to those non gun types even at interview stage it also shows huge responsibility and I've used it to my advantage when negotiating working hours especialy around my gun clubs opening time

[eyebull]

Very interesting.

I do feel almost like I have to hide my passion for shooting air rifles and all things gun related for fear of being labelled as a 'nut' but I am doing nothing wrong, dangerous or illegal.

Without being too evangelical about it, I do like to take the time to talk about my shooting hobbies when the opportunity presents itself. Unless you are talking to total bellends then quite often you can talk people round.

A friend-of-a-friend posted something on FB a few weeks ago, a petition from the Cats Protection League calling for the banning of airguns, and was asking all of her friends to sign it.
I said I would not be signing it, and in the least patronising/angry way possible explained to her why - that it would not stop idiots shooting cats, that those idiots were not representative of the shooting community, and then used that as a good time to drop the number of shooters and guns in the UK, which is a huge amount: Millions of airguns, hundreds of thousand of shotguns and fullbore rifles. And yet incidents are still rare. I also talked about the livelihoods reliant on airgunning, from clubs and ranges, to gunshops and factories.
In the end, she came around to my point of view (!) and deleted the petition from her page.

I'm not saying that's always going to happen, but most Antis are coming from a position of ignorance, and as long as they are not also Arrogant with it, they can be educated.
They will never learn anything if we all just 'keep our heads down' and allow their prejudices to fester though.

[tacfoley]

Very interesting.

I do feel almost like I have to hide my passion for shooting air rifles and all things gun related for fear of being labelled as a 'nut' but I am doing nothing wrong, dangerous or illegal.

I wonder what it is like in the US with the NRA? Obviously they are super powerful with a huge membership so my guess is it must be very tight community and not as disjointed as it is here in the UK??

I've been a NRA member since 1976, and fractured it ain't. About half the legal gun-owning population of the US support it's aims, and the membership is HUGE - around five million according to the 2013 figures.

Because the LEGAL possession of firearms is a Constitutional Right, not a privilege as it is elsewhere on planet earth, it has the tacit power of the constitution behind its constitution, if you get my drift. IOW, the aims of the NRA directly support the Second Amendment - one mirroring the other.

The RKBA being the part of the CoTUoA, means that in theory at least, the power of the association is tied into the ultimate power that runs the USA, no matter what party holds the balance of power in the Senate, or the White House, for that matter.

The NRA is THE defining shooting association, but there are hundreds of others, just like there are here in UK, that are associated with it. NRA qualifications are much-prized, too, and are of professional standards where applicable.

There is no harm joining and living remote from the USA - many thousands of non-residents do so.

The other organisation in the USA, mutually supportive in its own way, is the Civilian Marksmanship Programme and its hang-off, the Appleseed Programme. Unlike the NRA, you need to be a citizen to enjoy the rights and privileges of these two. Both the CMP, that fosters the civilian application of military shooting skills - think government-sponsored Civilian Service Rifle comps with the same arms as the military, and the Project Appleseed.

See if you like this -

Project Appleseed is an apolitical rifle marksmanship training program that focuses on teaching traditional rifle marksmanship from standing, sitting/kneeling, and prone positions over a two-day weekend shooting clinic for what is termed an "Appleseed". It is one of the major activities of The Revolutionary War Veterans Association (RWVA), a 501(c) non-profit organization that teaches and promotes traditional rifle marksmanship, while also teaching American heritage and history with the intent of encouraging people to become active legal shooters within the civil community.

In addition to Project Appleseed, there is also a companion subsidiary activity conducted within the RWVA called "Liberty Seed" that is the American heritage and history portion of Project Appleseed. "Liberty Seed" has been termed a "civics class in disguise", and features content on the "Three Strikes" that were needed to start the American Revolutionary War.

The emphasis on teaching traditional rifle marksmanship within Project Appleseed centers around traditional rifle marksmanship techniques using a rifle sling coupled with a concept termed "natural point of aim" (NPOA). Project Appleseed uses reduced size scaled silhouette targets that enable a shooter to assess their effective range with their rifle using a reduced length shooting range only 25 meters (82 feet) long, while simulating firing at full size targets at ranges up to 400 yards.

As part of teaching traditional rifleman marksmanship skills, Project Appleseed also teaches the rifleman's cadence. This consists of learning to fire at respiratory pauses every 3–4 seconds, shooting in synchronicity with one's natural rhythm of breathing thereby enabling improving one's marksmanship.

Remember too that in the USA the Scouting Organisation also fosters shooting skills with guns and bows to a far greater extent than the UK's Master at Arms badge ever did or could.

tac

[TonyL]

I'm glad it isn't just me then but it's disappointing how fractured the shooting community seems to be.

Surely the sensible thing would be for the entire shooting community in the UK to stick together and support each other.

If we are all only interested in protecting our own disciplines and belittling the others it makes it easier for Government to continue to pick away at the sport?

So many good posts and valid points made on this thread.

The strength in numbers / unity thing is what we must all strive for.

As mentioned in a couple of posts, I try to get my hobby into as many conversations as I possibly can to spread the good word. And it's amazing how many people say,"Oh yes, I have an air rifle, too" ranging from old classic hand-me-downs to modern, electronic PCPs.

And I've also had the odd freebie, too, like the little Gamo I was given a couple of weeks ago.

[Rich]

The unity thing sounds like a good ideal but we must guard against the imposition of uniformity, in the sense of common rules etc. I think there is a real danger of the airgun voice being the faintest of them, drowned out by folk with louder bangsticks.

[clarky]

I also feel that due inpart to the greater danger to life posed by Rim fires/Centre fires that such club members can be more strict and spincter twitching with their actions and conversation....understandable i guess but some downright anal.
Airgunners an altogether more relaxed and humerous crowd of folks.
Infact that pretty much summed up that day at the .22 club....we cooly ambled in...ignored the pompous attitudes....out shot the entire club and smugly ambled back out.

[ChrisC]

The unity thing sounds like a good ideal but we must guard against the imposition of uniformity, in the sense of common rules etc. I think there is a real danger of the airgun voice being the faintest of them, drowned out by folk with louder bangsticks.

Which is a pity Rich as i suspect that air rifles outnumber all the other forms of shooting put together.

[mickson]

As in all sports shooting has a cross section of society, so you will always get some "Plonkers" I've shot all kind of rifles/pistols some twerp will always whinge what ever type you are shooting. I like to shut them up by out shooting them with my "inferior" kit. ...mike...