Airtech regged regal - my experience and not impressed at all

[villaman]

correct. there is more than one unhappy customer claiming to have lost items or had a bad experience.

Exactly claiming , I am not saying he did or did not

[villaman]

Only if the magazine is loaded and only a fool would put a loaded magazine in a gun and post it. If the magazine is empty no offence has been committed as the gun is not loaded!

Wrong you should read the law on magazine airguns

Many air guns have multishot magazines. The Firearms Act 1968 states that if you
have a magazine fitted to your airgun it is deemed to be loaded irrespective of
whether the magazine contains ammunition or not. Additionally, if a magazine
contains any ammunition (one pellet or more) the gun is deemed to be loaded even if
the magazine is not fitted to the gun. Never have in your possession a magazine
that is even partially loaded when not on your own property, a recognised club or
land where you have permission to shoot and never transport your air gun with an
empty magazine fitted. Despite the fact that there may be several feet between the
magazine and your air gun, it is still deemed to be loaded as in law the magazine is
considered to be part of the gun and you will face prosecution. There no defence in
law to this charge.

[secretagentmole]

Wrong you should read the law on magazine airguns

Many air guns have multishot magazines. The Firearms Act 1968 states that if you
have a magazine fitted to your airgun it is deemed to be loaded irrespective of
whether the magazine contains ammunition or not. Additionally, if a magazine
contains any ammunition (one pellet or more) the gun is deemed to be loaded even if
the magazine is not fitted to the gun. Never have in your possession a magazine
that is even partially loaded when not on your own property, a recognised club or
land where you have permission to shoot and never transport your air gun with an
empty magazine fitted. Despite the fact that there may be several feet between the
magazine and your air gun, it is still deemed to be loaded as in law the magazine is
considered to be part of the gun and you will face prosecution. There no defence in
law to this charge.

Just read this bit!

(3)This section applies to every firearm except—

[F1(a)a shot gun within the meaning of this Act, that is to say a smooth-bore gun (not being an air gun) which—

(i)has a barrel not less than 24 inches in length and does not have any barrel with a bore exceeding 2 inches in diameter;

(ii)either has no magazine or has a non-detachable magazine incapable of holding more than two cartridges; and

(iii)is not a revolver gun; and]

(b)an air weapon (that is to say, an air rifle, air gun or air pistol [F2which does not fall within section 5(1) and which is] not of a type declared by rules made by the Secretary of State under section 53 of this Act to be specially dangerous).

Under 12 ft lb, so you can put the magazine in the gun. Now as it is a pcp it should be transported devoid of air too, so it should also be in a condition which means it cannot be fired!

[bighit]

Exactly claiming , I am not saying he did or did not

and how can the person saying it was not there prove it?

should he do an unboxing video as proof or the sender doing one when packing ? he could let the sender know asap once he has opened the box to check the contents arrived safely.

if he asked for a magazine ,a moderator and other items but then found they were not there ,he could advise the sender. my old boss did this. saves this thread being posted up on line

we had a customer that would send a head off an engine for valve work but always forget to send the valve stem seals .they boss would call him before we started the job. .

saying he did not work on some one else rifle then proved wrong .


the fact that over the years others have had issues just proves the guy has unhappy customers . some claim to have lost items but most claim he has communication which he has admitted to also.

Can't see him claiming slander if he has admitted his own failings .

I pity the people that want to use his range if he is going to continue to be a one man outfit. or people employed by him .

lack of communication is not good for a business.

[villaman]

[QUOTE=secretagentmole;7267692]Just read this bit!

(3)This section applies to every firearm except—

[F1(a)a shot gun within the meaning of this Act, that is to say a smooth-bore gun (not being an air gun) which—

(i)has a barrel not less than 24 inches in length and does not have any barrel with a bore exceeding 2 inches in diameter;

(ii)either has no magazine or has a non-detachable magazine incapable of holding more than two cartridges; and

(iii)is not a revolver gun; and]

(b)an air weapon (that is to say, an air rifle, air gun or air pistol [F2which does not fall within section 5(1) and which is] not of a type declared by rules made by the Secretary of State under section 53 of this Act to be specially dangerous).

Under 12 ft lb, so you can put the magazine in the gun. Now as it is a pcp it should be transported devoid of air too, so it should also be in a condition which means it cannot be fired![/QUOTE


Sorry you can not have a empty mag in a gun unless you are on your ground or club you are shooting at

[Seamaster]

I know that BSA ship there guns with the magazine in situ because I've opened a few. I wouldn't have thought they'd do this if it was illegal.

Chris

[Rabid]

As I understand it, you cannot have a magazine In an air rifle even if empty and gun is sleeved, the magazine has to be out of the gun, stored in a separate compartment. I may be wrong on that, unsure where I found the info from but it has stuck in my mind.

I think you would be pretty unlucky to fall foul of that, but if it is the law, then your committing an offence.

Mole, when you say, as it's a pcp it should be transported devoid of air, are you talking about postage or generally transported, i.e., in my vehicle to my perm ?
If postage, I thought it was any pressure vessel regardless if empty or not.

Isn't it about time our laws were simplified so all these grey areas were defined clearly.

[secretagentmole]

As I understand it, you cannot have a magazine In an air rifle even if empty and gun is sleeved, the magazine has to be out of the gun, stored in a separate compartment. I may be wrong on that, unsure where I found the info from but it has stuck in my mind. Not if the air rifle is sub 12 ft lb

I think you would be pretty unlucky to fall foul of that, but if it is the law, then your committing an offence.

Mole, when you say, as it's a pcp it should be transported devoid of air, are you talking about postage or generally transported, i.e., in my vehicle to my perm ?
If postage, I thought it was any pressure vessel regardless if empty or not. By Royal Mail. They do not like pressurised containers yet they ship CO2 capsules?

Isn't it about time our laws were simplified so all these grey areas were defined clearly.

Not according to the letter of the law, That does not apply to a Sub 12 air rifle!

[Rabid]

No i have no connection with Carl or airtech but have had a shroud made and nothing else , I must say ,its absolutely brilliant , nice one Carl

I also have my own business and i can tell you some of the public are a nightmare , never wrong but they are and i will also tell them that as well and all my work is on my reputation , take this it up with Carl directly not slagging him off on forums , it could land you up in court for slander !!

I know exactly where your coming from on the business side as I also run my own business, and yes, the general public CAN be a nightmare, often claiming for stuff that's false, but I honestly don't believe this is the case here, in my line, if I have an unhappy customer I try and put it right, ALL my work is on reputation as well, never advertised in my life, were stacked out, we have an excellent reputation, sometimes it pays to do that little extra to keep that Rep, future work and recommendation is often worth more than the few quid your arguing about- I am not suggesting bow down to every complaint or comment, common sense obviously has to be applied.

I for one tried on many occasions to take my problem up directly with Carl, text messages, phone calls, emails, private messages, you name it, other than a three hour drive upto his I tried it, all to no avail, never once had an answer, nada, diddly squat.

Almost 5 months later he decided to get the Arse with me on a forum when I suggested he be steered well clear of (due to my personal experience), was rude and arrogant, until his memory was jogged, then silence since, so he can try for slander with me as much as he bloody well likes, I have all the evidence to back my statements up.

[villaman]

I know exactly where your coming from on the business side as I also run my own business, and yes, the general public CAN be a nightmare, often claiming for stuff that's false, but I honestly don't believe this is the case here, in my line, if I have an unhappy customer I try and put it right, ALL my work is on reputation as well, never advertised in my life, were stacked out, we have an excellent reputation, sometimes it pays to do that little extra to keep that Rep, future work and recommendation is often worth more than the few quid your arguing about- I am not suggesting bow down to every complaint or comment, common sense obviously has to be applied.

I for one tried on many occasions to take my problem up directly with Carl, text messages, phone calls, emails, private messages, you name it, other than a three hour drive upto his I tried it, all to no avail, never once had an answer, nada, diddly squat.

Almost 5 months later he decided to get the Arse with me on a forum when I suggested he be steered well clear of (due to my personal experience), was rude and arrogant, until his memory was jogged, then silence since, so he can try for slander with me as much as he bloody well likes, I have all the evidence to back my statements up.

well fair play to you

[villaman]

This is what i have found

UK AIR GUN LAW
This section reflects the law as of June 2005 and is for general information only and
relates to non FAC airguns only. Any air gun that falls into the FAC category is
subject to the full effect of the Firearms act 1968 and is not within the scope of this
document. Replica guns are also not in the scope of this document. The law is
always subject to change and modification and this website may not reflect changes
to legislation.
SBFTC accept no responsibility whatsoever for any non compliance on the
part of any individual or party to prevailing law relating to air guns. Any
references stated or implied within this web site are intended to be used as an
indication of the general requirements of the law as at June 2005 and we can
not guarantee that content is current, complete or error free. It is entirely your
own responsibility to ensure you are conversant and compliant with current
law. All offences committed with air rifles are treated as a 'firearms offences'
which carry significant sentences under UK law.
Please note that Northern Ireland has additional restrictions relating to both air guns
and ammunition and requires a licence to be held regardless of power output.
Taking, or sending guns or even pellets to Northern Ireland is likely to result in
prosecution.
Air guns are also subject to different laws in Europe so do not assume you can take
an air weapon to mainland Europe without restriction or that UK law is transferable.
Be aware that there are also restrictions relating to the carrying of compressed air by
air, sea or channel tunnel.
There are additional restrictions relating to shooting of live quarry. Some species are
on an open licence and others are not. Do not assume that you are entitled to shoot
anything if you are either on your own property, or have written permission to shoot
from the landowner. The BASC website gives information regarding this, but be
aware that the species listed do change occasionally. Under no circumstances
shoot songbirds (i.e. sparrows, blue tits, blackbirds, thrush or robins etc) as this is
illegal and serves no purpose at all. No quarry may be shot whilst at SBFTC
grounds regardless of status. Note that it is also an offence to shoot domestic pets,
even if they are feral.
Third Party Insurance
Although not a legal requirement, it is strongly recommended that you take out your
own insurance. SBFTC has insurance that covers you at our range and if competing
in a BFTA competition, but if you shoot at any other location (including your own
land) you will not be covered. Both the BASC and NSRA can provide specific third
party insurance cover for air guns as can some other insurers for about £50 per year.

Firearms Acts 1968 and the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2004
Air Rifles and Young Persons
17 years and over
You may buy, borrow or hire an air rifle and its ammunition and may use it where you
have permission to do so.
Note that you need to be over 21 to supervise anyone under the age of 17. A
potential problem is a 20 year old driving their 16 year old brother along with their
rifles to a club. Both are committing an offence. Supervision is not only whilst
shooting at a club, but at any time in a public place which includes a motor vehicle.
Aged 14 – 17 years
You may not buy or hire an air rifle or ammunition. You may not receive an air rifle or
ammunition as a gift but you may borrow one. If you are under 17 then your air rifle
and ammunition must be bought for you by someone over 17 – normally your parent,
guardian or some other responsible adult.
If you are aged between 14 – 17 years you may use an air rifle on private premises
without supervision with the consent of the occupier – normally the owner or tenant.
If a pellet leaves the premises whilst you are shooting then both you and the person
supervising you commit a criminal offence.
You may not carry an air rifle in a public place unless you are supervised by a
person of 21 years or over and you have a reasonable excuse to do so, for example,
whilst on the way to a club or land where you have permission to shoot. If carrying
an air weapon in a public place it must completely covered in a gun case or gun bag.
Young people under 14 years
If you are under 14 you may not buy, hire or receive an air rifle or its ammunition as
a gift.
You may not carry an air weapon in a public place.
You may borrow an air rifle and use it under supervision on private premises with
permission from the occupier – normally the owner or tenant. The person who
supervises you must be of or over 21 years of age.
If a pellet leaves the premises whilst you are shooting then both you and the person
supervising you commit a criminal offence.
Parents or guardians who buy an air rifle for use by an under 14 year old must
exercise control over it at all time even in the home, garden or gun club.
Public Places
A public place is anywhere where the public are allowed to go even though they may
have to pay to be there. Roads, streets, footpaths, public parks, play areas and canal
towpaths are all examples of public places.
It is an offence for anyone to have an air rifle – whether it is loaded or not – in a
public place unless they have a reasonable excuse for doing so, for example, whilst
on the way to a gun shop or to a shooting club, however, you are expected to take a
direct route.
Note that under the Firearms Act 1968 your car constitutes a public place, so even if
your airgun is locked out of sight in the boot, it is in a public place and you must have
reasonable excuse.
Trespass
It is against the law to trespass on any land (including land covered by water) or in
any building, while you have an air rifle with you. Whether the gun is loaded and
whether or not you have pellets with you is irrelevant. If you go onto land without
permission, you are trespassing, unless there is some right of access for the public.
If there is a right of access for the public the restrictions set out above will apply.
Trespass with an air rifle is 'armed trespass', a criminal offence, the penalties for
which can be severe.
As well as the offences already mentioned, it is against the law, in England and
Wales, to fire an air rifle within 50 feet of the centre of a highway, if by doing so you
cause any member of the public, using that right of way, to be injured, interrupted or
endangered. This offence could be committed, for example, by someone on private
property close to a road who uses an air rifle in a way which endangers people on
the road.

Magazines
Many air guns have multishot magazines. The Firearms Act 1968 states that if you
have a magazine fitted to your airgun it is deemed to be loaded irrespective of
whether the magazine contains ammunition or not. Additionally, if a magazine
contains any ammunition (one pellet or more) the gun is deemed to be loaded even if
the magazine is not fitted to the gun. Never have in your possession a magazine
that is even partially loaded when not on your own property, a recognised club or
land where you have permission to shoot and never transport your air gun with an
empty magazine fitted. Despite the fact that there may be several feet between the
magazine and your air gun, it is still deemed to be loaded as in law the magazine is
considered to be part of the gun and you will face prosecution. There no defence in
law to this charge.

[Seamaster]

To be fair VM, that's an interpretation of the law.
If you look at the ACTUAL law you'll see that it's ok to carry an empty mag in a sub twelve airgun.

Chris

[secretagentmole]

This is what i have found

UK AIR GUN LAW
This section reflects the law as of June 2005 and is for general information only and
relates to non FAC airguns only. Any air gun that falls into the FAC category is
subject to the full effect of the Firearms act 1968 and is not within the scope of this
document. Replica guns are also not in the scope of this document. The law is
always subject to change and modification and this website may not reflect changes
to legislation.
SBFTC accept no responsibility whatsoever for any non compliance on the
part of any individual or party to prevailing law relating to air guns. Any
references stated or implied within this web site are intended to be used as an
indication of the general requirements of the law as at June 2005 and we can
not guarantee that content is current, complete or error free. It is entirely your
own responsibility to ensure you are conversant and compliant with current
law. All offences committed with air rifles are treated as a 'firearms offences'
which carry significant sentences under UK law.
Please note that Northern Ireland has additional restrictions relating to both air guns
and ammunition and requires a licence to be held regardless of power output.
Taking, or sending guns or even pellets to Northern Ireland is likely to result in
prosecution.
Air guns are also subject to different laws in Europe so do not assume you can take
an air weapon to mainland Europe without restriction or that UK law is transferable.
Be aware that there are also restrictions relating to the carrying of compressed air by
air, sea or channel tunnel.
There are additional restrictions relating to shooting of live quarry. Some species are
on an open licence and others are not. Do not assume that you are entitled to shoot
anything if you are either on your own property, or have written permission to shoot
from the landowner. The BASC website gives information regarding this, but be
aware that the species listed do change occasionally. Under no circumstances
shoot songbirds (i.e. sparrows, blue tits, blackbirds, thrush or robins etc) as this is
illegal and serves no purpose at all. No quarry may be shot whilst at SBFTC
grounds regardless of status. Note that it is also an offence to shoot domestic pets,
even if they are feral.
Third Party Insurance
Although not a legal requirement, it is strongly recommended that you take out your
own insurance. SBFTC has insurance that covers you at our range and if competing
in a BFTA competition, but if you shoot at any other location (including your own
land) you will not be covered. Both the BASC and NSRA can provide specific third
party insurance cover for air guns as can some other insurers for about £50 per year.

Firearms Acts 1968 and the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2004
Air Rifles and Young Persons
17 years and over
You may buy, borrow or hire an air rifle and its ammunition and may use it where you
have permission to do so.
Note that you need to be over 21 to supervise anyone under the age of 17. A
potential problem is a 20 year old driving their 16 year old brother along with their
rifles to a club. Both are committing an offence. Supervision is not only whilst
shooting at a club, but at any time in a public place which includes a motor vehicle.
Aged 14 – 17 years
You may not buy or hire an air rifle or ammunition. You may not receive an air rifle or
ammunition as a gift but you may borrow one. If you are under 17 then your air rifle
and ammunition must be bought for you by someone over 17 – normally your parent,
guardian or some other responsible adult.
If you are aged between 14 – 17 years you may use an air rifle on private premises
without supervision with the consent of the occupier – normally the owner or tenant.
If a pellet leaves the premises whilst you are shooting then both you and the person
supervising you commit a criminal offence.
You may not carry an air rifle in a public place unless you are supervised by a
person of 21 years or over and you have a reasonable excuse to do so, for example,
whilst on the way to a club or land where you have permission to shoot. If carrying
an air weapon in a public place it must completely covered in a gun case or gun bag.
Young people under 14 years
If you are under 14 you may not buy, hire or receive an air rifle or its ammunition as
a gift.
You may not carry an air weapon in a public place.
You may borrow an air rifle and use it under supervision on private premises with
permission from the occupier – normally the owner or tenant. The person who
supervises you must be of or over 21 years of age.
If a pellet leaves the premises whilst you are shooting then both you and the person
supervising you commit a criminal offence.
Parents or guardians who buy an air rifle for use by an under 14 year old must
exercise control over it at all time even in the home, garden or gun club.
Public Places
A public place is anywhere where the public are allowed to go even though they may
have to pay to be there. Roads, streets, footpaths, public parks, play areas and canal
towpaths are all examples of public places.
It is an offence for anyone to have an air rifle – whether it is loaded or not – in a
public place unless they have a reasonable excuse for doing so, for example, whilst
on the way to a gun shop or to a shooting club, however, you are expected to take a
direct route.
Note that under the Firearms Act 1968 your car constitutes a public place, so even if
your airgun is locked out of sight in the boot, it is in a public place and you must have
reasonable excuse.
Trespass
It is against the law to trespass on any land (including land covered by water) or in
any building, while you have an air rifle with you. Whether the gun is loaded and
whether or not you have pellets with you is irrelevant. If you go onto land without
permission, you are trespassing, unless there is some right of access for the public.
If there is a right of access for the public the restrictions set out above will apply.
Trespass with an air rifle is 'armed trespass', a criminal offence, the penalties for
which can be severe.
As well as the offences already mentioned, it is against the law, in England and
Wales, to fire an air rifle within 50 feet of the centre of a highway, if by doing so you
cause any member of the public, using that right of way, to be injured, interrupted or
endangered. This offence could be committed, for example, by someone on private
property close to a road who uses an air rifle in a way which endangers people on
the road.

Magazines
Many air guns have multishot magazines. The Firearms Act 1968 states that if you
have a magazine fitted to your airgun it is deemed to be loaded irrespective of
whether the magazine contains ammunition or not. Additionally, if a magazine
contains any ammunition (one pellet or more) the gun is deemed to be loaded even if
the magazine is not fitted to the gun. Never have in your possession a magazine
that is even partially loaded when not on your own property, a recognised club or
land where you have permission to shoot and never transport your air gun with an
empty magazine fitted. Despite the fact that there may be several feet between the
magazine and your air gun, it is still deemed to be loaded as in law the magazine is
considered to be part of the gun and you will face prosecution. There no defence in
law to this charge.

But that is not the Law, as it appears on the statute books!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27 is the law!
Section 1, subsection 3, b applies, which exempts air rifles under 12 ft lb!

[airtech]

There you have it, he missed it, thought it was bubble wrap or packaging and binned it.... I would have put the magazine in the action....

that is very possible. but I certainly didn't see a mag. all this over a mag. if I had one I would happily give it him.

[airtech]

You lads should get out shooting or walking instead of venting foul air on here.

If I was Carl, I'd stump up half for a replacement mag and be done with it.

I'm off to the pub...

I have already offered that but he choses to continue the slagging off. he is under the impression all this is going to shut me down. what he does not realize is i are just about to open the largest shooting range in Shropshire. along with a shop that will be stocking most pcp rifles made. i own a engineering company nothing to do with rifles. and he thinks bollocks over a mag is going to shut me down.. dream on he has been given options i will go half way in a mag. but why should i do that. your all saying he sent it. where is the proof. there isn't any. if it was wrapped up that well looking like rubbish then its very possible it could have been mistaken as rubbish. if your going to wrap something up that's important then it should be in a envelope or something so it cannot be mistaken as packing. he has also been given the option i will revert the rifle back to as it was standard give him a refund and he can go elsewhere,