Refurbishing a few stocks

[jirushi]

This weekend I'm going to start refurbishing a few stocks:
- beech > 2 x Superten (MK1, 2), Spitfire
- walnut > Eliminator t/h, Heym .308 stutzen
I won't manage to work on all of them. But I'm looking forward to the process.
I've done my research, on this forum, other forums, youtube...

The process for the beech stocks will be:
- taking varnish off with paint stripper and an old bank card > already done, very easy and rewarding job
- sweating the old stain out, using a cotton cloth and the steam function on my iron (inspired by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkIDm_2lN1c&t=352s)
- sanding, starting with 100 and working my way up to 220, good quality sanding paper (not glass). Not finer than 220 at this point in order for the dye to take well. Using a sanding block to get even pressure on the paper. And being careful not to round off sharp lines, or eg. the contours of the butt.
- dye, I've tried (bought...) several from my DIY shop, it's difficult to find the right one. With help of a forum member it will probably be an English chestnut dye. Water/solvent rather than oil based, because otherwise the CCL oil will mix with the dye oil. And dye rather than stain as stain can obscure the grain and can look like paint.
Applying the dye with a sponge or a cloth, in several thin layers, applied swiftly in long streaks, so that it doesn't dry whilst applying. Then you don't know which part hasn't had another layer yet. Parts that turn out darker can be lightened by sanding with fine paper or with steelwool grade 0000.
- wet sanding, grade 400 and then possibly 1000 paper. Dipping the paper in a water bowl, sanding, then drying the stock with a heat gun, then repeating the process with a finer paper if required.
- oiling; I have CCL conditioning oil. Applying it in a thin layer (a drop), letting it settle for 30min, then taking the excess oil off with a cloth and working the oil into the stock for a good half hour with my hands. 1 coat per 24 hours, 6 coats should give a nice finish, the more the shinier. Tru oil will give a very shiny finish unless sanded back. I don't like glossiness.
- Waxing.

This is the theory...

The process for the beech stocks will be almost the same as above, except that I will first have to sweat the old oils out of the wood, and I won't have to stain.
Sweating the oil out can be done by heating with a heatgun and then removing the oil that rises to the surface, with a cloth and some thinner. Better than sanding the top layer of the stock off. Also, it will be the only way to deal with the stippling on the t/h Eli stock; sanding will ruin it.
This will be a time consuming process, probably mostly on the Heym stock. The gun is about 30 years old and some parts of the stock are almost black with oil (and dirt) saturation.

To be continued...

Any insights/tips/warnings ("noooo, you've got it totally wrong mate, you amateur!") will be appreciated.
Also, if you know a great brand of dye that gives the rich brown/red colour on BSA stocks...

Some useful links:
http://riflesunlimited.co.uk/stock_refinishing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrQbZNduZL8. You've gotta love this all American gun guru, they way he smiles at the camera haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbgnvoJ1Nnc

[thisisdonald]

If I were you I would start with one stock and do them consecutively. While your plan is sound, some aspects of it will surely not go smoothly. Experience is everything so rather than breenging in and trying to tackle them all at once, I would pick the worst of them and start in that order.
Be careful staining the beech as the soft end grain will take the colour more than the hard edge grain.. it can make the job look amateur. In my opinion beech should be varnished and not stained or dyed. A tinted polyurethane varnish will do the job nicely. If you cut it back with wire wool it won't be glossy.
Also you will find that when oiling you will be able to apply 2,3, 4, maybe even more coats on the first session as the wood will drink it up.. rub each application dry with the heel of hour hand and don't apply again until fully dry...when you get to quite a few coats it can take longer to dry, especially in this weather. I've waited 2 weeks for a coat to dry before! The more layers you apply, the more depth will be given to the grain underneath. Refinishing stocks is a labour of love not to be rushed.. each stock is different and may take more or less time than the last.

Good luck, don't rush things and always ask before you do something you are not sure of... nothing worse than having to start again!!!

[Rickenbacker]

Just my 2p worth of opinion on the OP's method:

100 grit is way too coarse.
400 wet/dry is all that's required for the job, including grain filling.
No wet sanding - it continually fluffs up the fibres, requiring more sanding, and more sanding...
Refit the buttpad (wrapped with masking tape) during sanding. Otherwise you might find it won't fit correctly when you think you're finished.
Mask all chequered or stippled panels accurately (trim the tape with a sharp craft knife), they can have a light oil coat at the end if required.
Don't use wire wool until you have built up a few coats of oil finish, then use it to flat back. Otherwise tiny bits of wire get snagged in the wood fibres.

Generally, it sound like you're planning to remove too much material.
Generally, an oil finish on beech ends up looking patchy & dirty.

Good luck though!

[Berry]

Before



After


Don't know how my mate did it but it was a spectacular transformation.
God knows why you'd paint a lovely stock like that in the first place

[jirushi]

Many thanks Donald, Rooti McNote and Berry for the comments.
Yesterday I spent about 6 hours on the MK2 S10 stock, in the sun, with some music, very relaxing.
What took longest was getting rid of the old stain. Still not finished.
And then this morning I do some more research, and come across this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjUAIjf96ug

Wow! That will save me hours and hours on the other S10 and Spitfire stock!!!
So bleach it is to get the stain out. Will try later.

About oiling or varnishing: I am going to be stubborn here and oil the MK2 S10 stock and see how it turns out. I hate varnish tbh. It always scratches. You can't really take care of it, whereas an oiled stock you can recondition and give tlc whilst watching tv haha.

Cheers Louis

[bighit]

Many thanks Donald, Rooti McNote and Berry for the comments.
Yesterday I spent about 6 hours on the MK2 S10 stock, in the sun, with some music, very relaxing.
What took longest was getting rid of the old stain. Still not finished.
And then this morning I do some more research, and come across this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjUAIjf96ug

Wow! That will save me hours and hours on the other S10 and Spitfire stock!!!
So bleach it is to get the stain out. Will try later.

About oiling or varnishing: I am going to be stubborn here and oil the MK2 S10 stock and see how it turns out. I hate varnish tbh. It always scratches. You can't really take care of it, whereas an oiled stock you can recondition and give tlc whilst watching tv haha.

Cheers Louis

the video is from neil180 off this forum.

[bighit]

plain tru oil on a beech stock https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxdjt33qkh...00707.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxdjt33qkh...00707.jpg?dl=0

the dark bits on the chequering is the old varnish finish. the dark patches I assume is dye from the varnish but you could not see it when the stock was sanded and wetted.

[thisisdonald]

plain tru oil on a beech stock https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxdjt33qkh...00707.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxdjt33qkh...00707.jpg?dl=0

the dark bits on the chequering is the old varnish finish. the dark patches I assume is dye from the varnish but you could not see it when the stock was sanded and wetted.

Ouch!.. There's a few hours ye'll no get back!
There's a reason beech is always lacquered and walnut is always oiled

[bighit]

Ouch!.. There's a few hours ye'll no get back!
There's a reason beech is always lacquered and walnut is always oiled

it only started to darken later. I will strip it and stain it a dark colour. going to do my hw99s one first.

tempted to do it black

[thisisdonald]

Tinted lacquer! If you stain beech, 9/10 it will have areas really dark and areas that won't take the stain at all.. best thing to do is strip it back, get the grain all looking nice and even and give it a nice thick coat of varnish!!
It doesn't have to be cheap boring old varnish.. check these out:
http://www.rothkoandfrost.com/tinted...uitar-lacquer/

[bighit]

Tinted lacquer! If you stain beech, 9/10 it will have areas really dark and areas that won't take the stain at all.. best thing to do is strip it back, get the grain all looking nice and even and give it a nice thick coat of varnish!!
It doesn't have to be cheap boring old varnish.. check these out:
http://www.rothkoandfrost.com/tinted...uitar-lacquer/

good choice there cheers.

the rifle in the pic is my .22lr. I did fancy a dark colour or a green.

[jirushi]

Tinted lacquer! If you stain beech, 9/10 it will have areas really dark and areas that won't take the stain at all.. best thing to do is strip it back, get the grain all looking nice and even and give it a nice thick coat of varnish!!
It doesn't have to be cheap boring old varnish.. check these out:
http://www.rothkoandfrost.com/tinted...uitar-lacquer/

That's a good tip. I haven't started dying yet. So perhaps I should go for tinted lacquer.
The only thing I don't understand is that you write that 9/10 beech stocks don't take stain. Whereas almost all beech stocks are stained/dyed by the manufacturers right? And they always look pretty decent.
Thanks, Louis

[bighit]

That's a good tip. I haven't started dying yet. So perhaps I should go for tinted lacquer.
The only thing I don't understand is that you write that 9/10 beech stocks don't take stain. Whereas almost all beech stocks are stained/dyed by the manufacturers right? And they always look pretty decent.
Thanks, Louis

I dont think they stain/dye them. almost always varnished/lacquered as its cheaper and quicker.

[thisisdonald]

I dont think they stain/dye them. almost always varnished/lacquered as its cheaper and quicker.

exactly... theres no denying that beech is cheaper and less attractive than walnut., and it doesnt respond as well to treatments that beautify harder woods.
Manufacturers know this and use the best, most cost effective finish... a nice thick brown lacquer! Think of old Webleys and BSAs - I love that chestnutty brown of an 80s Webley!!

in the video the OP posted, it shows the wood still having dye in it and the lad uses bleach to lighten it, I think whats happened here is he just hasnt removed all of the original varnish. If Im stripping a stock I just use a stanley blade and shave the varnish off right down to the wood - the benefits of doing it this way are many - theres no chemicals, you dont wet the wood and raise the grain, theres minimal sanding to prep for the new finish, its cleaner and I can do a full stock in about an hour... the only downsides are, its tricky to get into the nooks and crannies (I use good aluminium oxide paper for these), and you still have to use some stripper on any checkering.

walnut rules!!!

[bighit]

exactly... theres no denying that beech is cheaper and less attractive than walnut., and it doesnt respond as well to treatments that beautify harder woods.
Manufacturers know this and use the best, most cost effective finish... a nice thick brown lacquer! Think of old Webleys and BSAs - I love that chestnutty brown of an 80s Webley!!

in the video the OP posted, it shows the wood still having dye in it and the lad uses bleach to lighten it, I think whats happened here is he just hasnt removed all of the original varnish. If Im stripping a stock I just use a stanley blade and shave the varnish off right down to the wood - the benefits of doing it this way are many - theres no chemicals, you dont wet the wood and raise the grain, theres minimal sanding to prep for the new finish, its cleaner and I can do a full stock in about an hour... the only downsides are, its tricky to get into the nooks and crannies (I use good aluminium oxide paper for these), and you still have to use some stripper on any checkering.

walnut rules!!!

my Annie stock was sanded . not a coarse paper. never took long to do and I did not remove a lot of wood. there is only 3 coats on the stock. its hunting rifle so its ok if its not showroom looking. its just a little light colour wise. I managed to scratch the original finish badly when fitting a sling stud so I removed it . I was going to stain the true oil but never did get one. I wanted to use the rifle asap so just coated it. its been that colour for 4 years or so.

I just left the chequering as it was.

my HW99S, I used the Stanley knife blade to scrape after reading that you did it that way. took longer than it did with my Annie.

I soaked the HW99s with hot water from the shower to remove all the dust and to raise a few dents with an iron.

the finish on this stock was cracked and flaking off. its a 2003 model according to wheirauch . it looked bad. just on the one side at the for end . I got money off due to it and the galling. galling is fixed. just the stock to do and fit the tuning
kit.
I painted my father in laws planter a few weeks back with a green garden stain/paint and it looked like a good colour. I meant to get a sample but unused it all on the planter.

I even thought about spraying it black then clear varnish.

in had a beach HW80k stock done by a guy on a forum years ago and it looked really good. I'm sure it was a wax type finish .he is a carpenter and did a lot of was type finishes .he said it was an expensive finish . I forgot to ask him the name of it .

possibly briwax http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebas...---370g-238162