My 308 lapua brass won't fl size....help/advice needed

[vbull]

Presumably the brass wont fit your rifle?

Correct, won't fit.

[Black Beard]

Has it been fired in a military spec 7.62 rifle? There are meant to be differences, as this bit of random internet chatter says:

Indeed, cheaper commercial ammo canfailat the 1.638 headspace (e.g., UMC) in an M14/M1 Garand. Many military gas guns (e.g., M14 Rifles & M60 Machine guns) runwildlylong headspace by commercial (SAAMI) standards (U.S. Militaryfieldreject limit for the M60 & M14 is 1.6455, nearly 16 thousandths beyond commercial (SAAMI) GO, & nearly 8 thousandthsbeyondcommercial (SAAMI)fieldreject limit!).

[MikB]

Regarding military chamberings, they could indeed be overlong.

What happened in my 303 SMLE chamber was that the shoulder was more than 1/16" further from the bolt face than nominal. The case shoulder wouldn't roll forward, so the case body stretched just in front of the web, and swelled out by quite few thou because of the tapered chamber. I could FL resize the cases, but if I did it just squashed back the swelling in front of the web and disguised the problem whilst also probably aggravating it by working the brass. I got several case head separations on reloads - none of them dangerous - so I eventually gave up and stuck to factory rounds.

It might well not be possible for this to happen with a less tapered and rimless round like .308, but I think the advice above to measure diameters around the case head and just ahead of the web is good.

[tacfoley]

Has it been fired in a military spec 7.62 rifle? There are meant to be differences, as this bit of random internet chatter says:

Indeed, cheaper commercial ammo canfailat the 1.638 headspace (e.g., UMC) in an M14/M1 Garand. Many military gas guns (e.g., M14 Rifles & M60 Machine guns) runwildlylong headspace by commercial (SAAMI) standards (U.S. Militaryfieldreject limit for the M60 & M14 is 1.6455, nearly 16 thousandths beyond commercial (SAAMI) GO, & nearly 8 thousandthsbeyondcommercial (SAAMI)fieldreject limit!).

The Steyr SSG is not a military spec rifle.

Here in UK an M14 is a long distant memory, as we have not been allowed to have the real thing since 1988.

All firearms made in Europe conform to the CIP chamber dimensions, not SAAMI - Steyr is an Austrian brand, and as such uses the CIP dimensions.

The AIAW is made in England, and does likewise.

tac

[vbull]

Thanks for all the replies. I've managed to bump the shoulders back a bit with a 308 body die just enough so they will fit in the AW rifle and I've neck sized with a Wilson die for now although using the Wilson only sizes 3/16" of neck but at least I'll be able to fire them. Going back to the original problem, I tried a Redding FL sizer and still the cases won't size, bit of a mystery !

[Black Beard]

Okay, maybe either a over-stressed rifle with a bad bolt or the loads have been excessive and the cartidge head has bulged (measure the cartridge dimensions)?

To get an idea of headspace, get a precisely made cup shaped object (pistol cartridge or Lee powder scoops work well) and put it over the neck of the case. Then measure the cartridge base to the top of the cup with a vernier. Then compare to a fired case from your rifle. The size of the cup doesn't matter as you are only after + or - relative to each other. The cup shape should be 0.4" internal diameter but it doen't have to be exact as long as you are away from the curves where the taper changes.

The difference between your rifle's fired case and the lapua brass should give you an idea of whether the shoulder on the lapua brass is forwards

If you compare a fired and sized case, this method also lets you quickly dial your sizing die in towards your chamber dimensions (so less unnecessary working of brass). Each 5 degrees of turn on a standard reloading die is almost exactly 1 thou of an inch of movement.

BB

[vbull]

Okay, maybe either a over-stressed rifle with a bad bolt or the loads have been excessive and the cartidge head has bulged (measure the cartridge dimensions)?

To get an idea of headspace, get a precisely made cup shaped object (pistol cartridge or Lee powder scoops work well) and put it over the neck of the case. Then measure the cartridge base to the top of the cup with a vernier. Then compare to a fired case from your rifle. The size of the cup doesn't matter as you are only after + or - relative to each other. The cup shape should be 0.4" internal diameter but it doen't have to be exact as long as you are away from the curves where the taper changes.

The difference between your rifle's fired case and the lapua brass should give you an idea of whether the shoulder on the lapua brass is forwards

If you compare a fired and sized case, this method also lets you quickly dial your sizing die in towards your chamber dimensions (so less unnecessary working of brass). Each 5 degrees of turn on a standard reloading die is almost exactly 1 thou of an inch of movement.

BB

Done the above and it seems I've had to bump the shoulder back almost 2 thou for the brass to fit the AW. Shouldn't think this would have anything to do with the fact the brass won't FL size..

[223AI]

Is your die set up correctly?

With lee dies at least if you set the die so it just touches the case holder then try and close on a fired case you will generally find that the case will not FL size and there will be a gap between the holder and bottom of the die. If you then screw in the die the further 1.5 (or thereabouts) turns stated in the instructions the case will FL size and you'll be able to push the case holder right up to the bottom of the die.