Springers progress

[Rickenbacker]

[...]

The springer is at about the stage that the Mauser rifle got to in the 1930s, about as far as it could go in development. New Mauser rifles are still being made, so its not a bad thing.

With respect, Ali - How about weight?

With modern materials, lightweight pistons, lightweight shrouds etc, nobody wants a pellet gun to be as heavy as the '77, '80, or TX, do they?

Except light weight makes them jumpy and flippy. So how about reducing piston bounce?

Put a couple of Formula 1 engineers on the job, and I bet they'd reinvent the whole springer industry in a weekend.

[look no hands]

I think the lack of progress is because a lot of makers don't want to invest enough money into them, the PCP's have taken over and have received the funding but springers have fallen by the wayside, progress has only really happened with springers because of the tuners (pro and shed) with the exceptions of Air Arms and Theoben (ok not technically a springer) over 30 years ago and recently Walther but all they did was to take the best bits of AA and HW and mash them into a rifle that still wasn't perfect BUT give them their due at least they invested and tried.

BSA have just given up because of parent company penny pinching, HW seem to be just sat on their laurels and just seem to offer synthetic stock versions now and who knows what Diana are trying to do, even if they do produce something new, you have trouble trying to get hold of one or even be able to afford one, not sure if it's even worth mentioning the others like Gamo and Hatsan as they just seem to restock their actions every few months and call them something new.

Pete

[robs5230]

springer design has stagnated. The only real research and development now going on is into lightweight skirtless pistons enabling less cocking input and reduced felt recoil, though not by any of the major manufacturers.
Changes over the years with the major manufacturers have only been done to reduce cost, favour the US market or comply with legistlation.

[TonyL]

Love threads like this, but no time to jump in properly.

Will be along laterz......

BOING!!

[Blackrider]

Post #8 just about sums it up for me but I liked Phil's comment concerning weight reduction in future spring Airgun design !

[tinbum]

springer design has stagnated. The only real research and development now going on is into lightweight skirtless pistons enabling less cocking input and reduced felt recoil, though not by any of the major manufacturers.
Changes over the years with the major manufacturers have only been done to reduce cost, favour the US market or comply with legistlation.

Lightweight, skirtless pistons are actually old technology. They always worked well, but the cost and reliability drawbacks meant they were always at a disadvantage.

The future is light to medium weight full bodied pistons.

[TonyL]

Lightweight, skirtless pistons are actually old technology. They always worked well, but the cost and reliability drawbacks meant they were always at a disadvantage.

The future is light to medium weight full bodied pistons.

I think you're right there, Nick.

And depending on the pressure exerted on the piston face, for many guns we're talking in the region of 170 to 200 grams?

Also, remember that many "new" ideas aren't that new at all. I can't remember the name and make of the gun now, but John Milewski featured a rifle once (1910s/20s?) where the target version sported a lightweight aluminium piston giving less power and reduced recoil.. There's very rarely anything "new" that hasn't been tried before.

[Geezer]

What everyone else said. The tuners have more refined techniques now (eg sleeving) than 35 years ago. But that's about it. The old stuff is just as good, if not better, than current production springers.

[GoodWILLHunting]

What everyone else said. The tuners have more refined techniques now (eg sleeving) than 35 years ago. But that's about it. The old stuff is just as good, if not better, than current production springers.

Better in many instances, where off shoring has occurred it's older originally produced guns that are sought after in the 2nd hand market. Thats not just down to nostalgia imo.

[vestlenning]

With modern materials, lightweight pistons, lightweight shrouds etc, nobody wants a pellet gun to be as heavy as the '77, '80, or TX, do they?

I don't mind ...

I think that springers in general are where they should be, if you have a craving for something special then get to work.

[TonyL]

With respect, Ali - How about weight?

With modern materials, lightweight pistons, lightweight shrouds etc, nobody wants a pellet gun to be as heavy as the '77, '80, or TX, do they?

Except light weight makes them jumpy and flippy. So how about reducing piston bounce?

Put a couple of Formula 1 engineers on the job, and I bet they'd reinvent the whole springer industry in a weekend.

Mmm, piston bounce. Now there's a thing. This piston bounce / surge has been identified as the major cause of hold sensitivity in our springers. Many would like to reduce it. Some have tried to reduce / remove it altogether with various contraptions, like the Theoben-esque inertia weight and then some devices to halt bounce which have wrecked guns.

Certainly for guns approaching even our power limit, a degree of piston bounce really has to be seen as favourable, as there would be such a fine line between piston bounce and piston crash (or slam). We need sufficient pressure to achieve pellet release and to keep driving the pellet forwards (approx 13 to 16 inches?), so we need sufficient volume and pressure. The air cushion helps to give that softer landing on the second forward stroke.

I think the answer to piston bounce is to not chase the holy grail of banishing it, but by balancing all components which are inter-linked. So, spring force when the gun is cocked and at the end of the first forward stroke, piston weight, transfer port and the all-important pellet. Jim has shown us in his excellent articles how much different pellets can alter the characteristics, so really that fine art of fine-tuning is so pellet related.

I like our springers just as they are, with a good tune making many of them such a delight to shoot. Indeed, many factory ones can be a joy. And a good springer is every bit as accurate as a PCP and with more character, just that bit more challenging to master. But that's all part of the fun.

[robhw97k]

Bsa made some nice guns years ago but its all gamo now which is crap,weihrauch and air arms always made top of the range guns mainly hw80 and tx200.retro springer guns bsa air arms weihrauch they were the best.todays spring guns have less recoil than 70s 80s springers.springers are to noisey there no good at my permission need pcp gun.ive always been a springer man got 2 and wouldnt part with them but pcp is what ya want.

[vestlenning]

(...) but pcp is what ya want.

Not this guy.

[TORNADOS7]

Not this guy.

Not I either, without a doubt PCP's have their place in airgunning but any decent quality springer shot well is no less a rifle...

[rabbitwrecker]

but pcp is what ya want.

I've got testicles, so I don't need pfffttt-gun...