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Thread: Suggestions for "practical" Co2 pistol

  1. #16
    eyebull's Avatar
    eyebull is offline Even a stopped clock is right twice a day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alakar View Post
    At our club we do I.P.A.S
    We do not allow bb's of any sort due to ricochets .
    We did find that with black gas/CO2 and plastic BB's, the BB's shattered on impact so ricochets were not an issue. It may depend on your plate set up though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alakar View Post
    Most of all , enjoy it !
    Hear hear. IPAS and Practical is probably the most fun I've had airgunning. Unfortunately I have very little time to shoot these days and no longer have a vehicle.
    I really, really miss it
    Good deals with these members

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    Thumbs up Thanks for the info :)

    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    When I did Practical Pistol, almost everyone - including me - used Tokyo Marui Hi Capa 5.1's in 6mm bb, using 'green' gas (actually we tended to use higher pressure 'black' gas), modified to one extent or another. A few people tried CO2 but generally it was expensive in caplets, a bit of a hassle, and most of the time ended up smashing the guns to bits. TM hi capas have a vast aftermarket spares industry and are easy to work on. Priority modification is a metal slide because the plastic one will crack if you are using black gas. I liked to keep mine fairly stock-looking (although I did short-stroke it), but some people spent....a LOT of money. A lot. TBH you don't have to, a lot of it is in the mind; Reliability is the most important thing.
    At one place I shot practical you could have used a pellet pistol, but if you had done so you would have been at a distinct advantage when it came to speed reloading and pace of fire. BB guns are plenty accurate at the range and for the size of targets you shoot in practical.

    For IPAS I used an Umarex S+W 586 - perfect if you have a slightly larger hand. Also a slight advantage in that it is 10-shot. Most other people used a mix of CP88s and 586s, with the odd Umarex 1911 thrown in. Again the Umarex pistols have been around for years so there are plenty of spares available.
    Only went to a couple of IPAS matches where BBs were allowed. If outside they suffered greatly in the wind and at longer targets, semi auto was not a massive advantage as far as I could see.

    Doing something like IPAS or practical sorts the men from the boys when it comes to pistols. You'll put a hell of a lot of shots through in one day or evening, equivalent to months of normal plinking duty. Anything with reliability issues quickly falls by the wayside. The above will work, a lot of guns won't.
    Hi eyebull, thanks for your feedback. I have just purchased another pistol which is an A.W.E 1911 MEU 6mm airsoft - with full trades (Springfield Armory). It is part-by-part compatible with Tokyo Marui, and is full metal, using green gas. I also have a few mods for it (6.03mm tightbore barrel, slide spring, wood grips etc) Reliability is the main thing as you say and this looks like it does 'what it says on the tin', and is easy to maintain. I can't justify spending serious amounts of hard-earned on an airgun, as long as the basic thing is sound and works properly, everything else is a luxury to make it more like 'real steel' but has no real practical purpose. I've seen those Japanese Inokatsu 1911s and whilst they are stunning replicas, some of the prices I've seen (over $2,000 in one case) is insane, for a pistol which fires plastic BBs - a real steel firearm counterpart can cost well under that. Other than making it feel more true to the real thing, it has to my mind, little other practical use.

    IPSC/IPAS is the only discipline that really interests me, and I'm a huge fan of the 1911 in all it's incarnations, so I would get more much more enjoyment out of having a 1911 airgun replica as a sidearm for competition shooting, rather than a 'true' air pistol for 10m Olympic target discipline with .177 pellet. Still on the fence about the 1911 pellet variant. The Umarex/KWC 1911s are great because of the availability of parts and they are interchangeable. As you mention, there seems to be little application for 4.5mm BB, which relegates this medium largely to back garden plinking etc. But it's interesting to hear you mention their accuaracy if used on the range, as I've read other comments where it's said BBs are not accurate. I'd love to shoot indoor IPSC/IPAS at 10m with 4.5mm BB as well, which means I can use a GBB pistol and I feel that in this environment, tight groupings could be achieved. But it doesn't seem like it's an accepted standard generally.
    Last edited by Barison82; 28-01-2018 at 05:02 PM. Reason: Added extra comments
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    Thumbs up Thanks for feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Alakar View Post
    At our club we do I.P.A.S
    We do not allow bb's of any sort due to ricochets .
    Whilst blowback pistols are great fun, we find that most people use the Smith and Wesson revolver, the Walther CP88 competition or the Colt 1911 .
    Most of all , enjoy it !
    Hi Alakar, where is your club based? I know that the CP88 is excellent. However the 1911 is my favourite pistol design, the classic A1, Series 70 and MEU etc and I just love the way it looks, and I may well end up having to get the .177 Pellet version from Umarex, to give me more choice as to where I can shoot if I want to practice .177 targets. Full Copper Jacket lead BBs by Webley are supposedley low ricochet, but not low enough for 10m target evidently? I've found a dedicated indoor 6mm airsoft range near where I work so it looks like I'm heading in that direction to start off with. At least it's a start as I've got zero experience under my belt as I speak. At the very least, I can learn and practice safe gun handling disciplines and etiquette, and I really do want to practice this until it becomes second nature. My other half is Australian and we have family that we visit out there every year. IPSC with a 9mm (and .45 I think) pistol is still allowed out there as a discipline and there's a local gun shop which stocks 1911s. Handguns are Category H firearms in Oz and there are many hoops you have to go through to get one but at least it's something I could have a chance of doing in the future, if I end up living out there. So IPSC with airsoft might be the best form of practice in this regard. And yes - I do want to enjoy it, above all else, otherwise what's the point!
    Last edited by Barison82; 28-01-2018 at 05:06 PM.
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by eyebull View Post
    We did find that with black gas/CO2 and plastic BB's, the BB's shattered on impact so ricochets were not an issue. It may depend on your plate set up though.




    Hear hear. IPAS and Practical is probably the most fun I've had airgunning. Unfortunately I have very little time to shoot these days and no longer have a vehicle.
    I really, really miss it
    Yes I thought that there are ways to minimise/stop ricochets with BBs. I was curious about the Webley Copper BBs and how effective they are in this regard for 4.5mm, and if they are suitable at all for use in Umarex air pistols. Big shame that you are not as involved with IPAS as you'd like to be. Not having a car is a big barrier in this sport. I'm in London and probably quite fortunate as there seems to be quite a few clubs within easy travelling distance by public transport, however I'm struggling to find one that offers IPAS. The airsoft range in Camden is looking like my best bet at the moment.
    Last edited by Barison82; 28-01-2018 at 04:05 PM.
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    Hi,
    I'm a bit far away from you I think .
    We are in Blackburn Lancashire.
    We had a fun shoot this morning and included I.P.A.S
    The quickest time was 3.13 seconds for 5 plates !

  6. #21
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    Gareth W-B is offline Retired Mod & Airgun Anorak Extraordinaire
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    .
    As someone who used to do Practical Mini Rifle with a banana mag fed Ruger 10/22 sat in a synthetic Heckler & Koch styled stock, imho, the best gun for Co2 Mini Gun would be the Umarex MPK-PDW or the Sig Sauser MCX / MPX.
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Alakar View Post
    Hi,
    I'm a bit far away from you I think .
    We are in Blackburn Lancashire.
    We had a fun shoot this morning and included I.P.A.S
    The quickest time was 3.13 seconds for 5 plates !
    Hi. Yes you are just a bit too far away - shame! That sounds like great fun. Can't wait to get involved. IPAS and IPSC is definitely the way to go. Blimey. 3.13 seconds for 5 plates is outstanding! A great score indeed.
    "You make contact with your customer. Understand their needs. And then flog them something they could well do without.” - Arthur Daley

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth W-B View Post
    .
    As someone who used to do Practical Mini Rifle with a banana mag fed Ruger 10/22 sat in a synthetic Heckler & Koch styled stock, imho, the best gun for Co2 Mini Gun would be the Umarex MPK-PDW or the Sig Sauser MCX / MPX.
    Interesting. Maybe I should try and open my mind to other options, but for some reason I can't look past the 1911 design. I just love it so much, but I know that as an airgun replica it is probably not the best thing to have for IPSC/IPAS.
    "You make contact with your customer. Understand their needs. And then flog them something they could well do without.” - Arthur Daley

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    Another vote for the CZ 75 P09 Duty. Looks good and has a reputation for reliability.

    As far as the Sigs go, both the P226 and 320 - with it's unnecessarily complicated loading system - have been a disappointment to some. I have a feeling that the P250, which came out at the same time as the P226 and had the same pellet magazine, and has now been discontinued, was a better performer. People didn't seem to like it because it had a plastic lower. Funny that they have been buying the 320 which also has a plastic lower, lousy pellet feed and is far more expensive.

    I really don't know why people have a thing about the use of plastic in guns. More and more firearms are being made with plastic lowers these days. And there is a reason. They are extremely strong, wear better than metal, are light and scratch resistant, and can be turned out in a variety of colours. And remember that the metal used in gas?CO2 bb guns is often just poorly painted pot metal.

    There is a reason the Glock is the most widely used gun by police forces in America. After the success of the Glock numerous companies started to make their own plastic guns. I used to own firearms several years ago, when I lived abroad - all but one were metal eg. CZ75, but guess which one I shot most? My Glock.

    Eventually I believe all guns will be made with plastic frames.
    Last edited by Arthur John Smithsplease; 28-01-2018 at 08:43 PM.
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    For anyone doing I.P.A.S
    We use an iPhone app called Surefire shot timer.
    Adjust the sensitivity , delay the start and it's excellent .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur John Smithsplease View Post
    Another vote for the CZ 75 P09 Duty. Looks good and has a reputation for reliability.

    As far as the Sigs go, both the P226 and 320 - with it's unnecessarily complicated loading system - have been a disappointment to some. I have a feeling that the P250, which came out at the same time as the P226 and had the same pellet magazine, and has now been discontinued, was a better performer. People didn't seem to like it because it had a plastic lower. Funny that they have been buying the 320 which also has a plastic lower, lousy pellet feed and is far more expensive.

    I really don't know why people have a thing about the use of plastic in guns. More and more firearms are being made with plastic lowers these days. And there is a reason. They are extremely strong, wear better than metal, are light and scratch resistant, and can be turned out in a variety of colours. And remember that the metal used in gas?CO2 bb guns is often just poorly painted pot metal.

    There is a reason the Glock is the most widely used gun by police forces in America. After the success of the Glock numerous companies started to make their own plastic guns. I used to own firearms several years ago, when I lived abroad - all were metal eg. CZ75, but guess which one I shot most? My Glock.

    Eventually I believe all guns will be made with plastic frames.
    I agree with your point regarding the use of plastic in guns. In fact the better performing airsoft guns are plastic. I suppose metal has a more satisfying heft and feel for many people, myself included. But yes, it's just zinc alloy or diecast metal out of Taiwan so are not really of the highest quality anyway. The Glock is a superb pistol, and very reliable in service. That guy on youtube, Hickok45, is a big fan of the Glock series of pistols and it's great to watch him shoot with them. You're probably right that Polymer may be the way forward, though unliked by many I'm sure.
    "You make contact with your customer. Understand their needs. And then flog them something they could well do without.” - Arthur Daley

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alakar View Post
    For anyone doing I.P.A.S
    We use an iPhone app called Surefire shot timer.
    Adjust the sensitivity , delay the start and it's excellent .
    Thanks for the tip will check this out
    "You make contact with your customer. Understand their needs. And then flog them something they could well do without.” - Arthur Daley

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth W-B View Post
    .

    As someone who used to do Practical Mini Rifle with a banana mag fed Ruger 10/22 sat in a synthetic Heckler & Koch styled stock, imho, the best gun for Co2 Mini Gun would be the Umarex MP5K-PDW or the Sig Sauser MCX / MPX.
    I now have an MP5K-PDW listed for sale in the sales section.
    _______________________________________________

    Done my bit for the BBS: http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....-being-a-mod-… now I’m a game-keeper turned poacher.

  14. #29
    eyebull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barison82 View Post
    Yes I thought that there are ways to minimise/stop ricochets with BBs. I was curious about the Webley Copper BBs and how effective they are in this regard for 4.5mm, and if they are suitable at all for use in Umarex air pistols. Big shame that you are not as involved with IPAS as you'd like to be. Not having a car is a big barrier in this sport. I'm in London and probably quite fortunate as there seems to be quite a few clubs within easy travelling distance by public transport, however I'm struggling to find one that offers IPAS. The airsoft range in Camden is looking like my best bet at the moment.
    Out of curiosity what's the name of the Camden range?
    I did some IPAS at East Barnet Shooting Club, not sure if they still do it there though.
    Good deals with these members

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barison82 View Post
    IPSC/IPAS is the only discipline that really interests me, and I'm a huge fan of the 1911 in all it's incarnations, so I would get more much more enjoyment out of having a 1911 airgun replica as a sidearm for competition shooting, rather than a 'true' air pistol for 10m Olympic target discipline with .177 pellet. Still on the fence about the 1911 pellet variant. The Umarex/KWC 1911s are great because of the availability of parts and they are interchangeable. As you mention, there seems to be little application for 4.5mm BB, which relegates this medium largely to back garden plinking etc. But it's interesting to hear you mention their accuaracy if used on the range, as I've read other comments where it's said BBs are not accurate. I'd love to shoot indoor IPSC/IPAS at 10m with 4.5mm BB as well, which means I can use a GBB pistol and I feel that in this environment, tight groupings could be achieved. But it doesn't seem like it's an accepted standard generally.
    Sadly while the Umarex 1911 (pellet) looks much like a 1911 in pictures, it doesn't really shoot like one. It feels quite 'fat' in the hand and the trigger is an odd two-part affair. So I'd try before you buy if possible. It's probably the least accurate of their replicas.

    Yes 4.5mm BB is a bit useless if you want to take it places. Nothing wrong with their accuracy at IPAS and IPSC ranges however.
    TBH you're much better served in the airsoft world though - massive variety of models that have been around for years, lots of people shooting them under rough conditions so plenty of feedback if it doesn't stand up. A Tanfoglio Witness 1911 despite being a very faithful replica doesn't bear any comparison to a TM 1911 for reliability or aftermarket support - try getting 7 or 8 mags for a Witness!

    It's a shame that IPAS and IPSC ended up being somewhat segregated when it came to guns. As niche sports I felt they could both have benefited with a wider variety of pistols in use. There were times in IPAS when a true semi-auto would have been blisteringly fast, and times in IPSC when the accuracy of a pellet shooter wold have made all the difference.
    Good deals with these members

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