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Thread: Original 50 T01- Maligned by Some

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    Original 50 T01- Maligned by Some

    Including myself. Until yesterday.
    I do like both 45's and 50's and always have done. My previous experience of the T01 extended to a very clean and accurate version belonging to a pal. The problem is it's a bloody harsh firing example, very likely resprung with something inappropriate.
    I managed to pick up a less tidy but much nicer shooting example for myself recently. Through the chrono(Accupells) it was unimpressive at first: 6.7fpe, 7.1, 7.3, 11.7!, 10.2. But then it settled down at 10.2 for good number of shots until i felt satisfied enough to stop testing.
    Anyway, on to the range where accuracy was initially quite unremarkable with my go-to-for-taps RWS Hobby. I had no other sift skirted pellets with me in .22 so it was onto FTT's and Crosman Premiers. It loved both of these hard, shallow skirted pellets as well as a cheap SMK wadcutter, the name of which escapes me. This example, dated 11 82, is a bloody accurate one and I'm glad I took the plunge on a model I previously had my doubts about. Possibly not quite the tackdriver that a good 45 is but few springers are. But I do rate this one.
    Theyre rare but there must be a few out there. Who's for and against the T01?

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    50t01

    Whats the point? if the 45 is more accurate/ powerful why bother with the 50T01. Thats always been my thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coburn View Post
    Whats the point? if the 45 is more accurate/ powerful why bother with the 50T01. Thats always been my thinking.
    Perhaps on a pure accuracy and ease of loading front you have a point. But collecting is a bit more than that. I've often said that the Sterling HR81 fell from the ugly tree and hit every branch coming down but I have come to appreciate its quirks, maybe to a degree its looks and functionality but more than that its collectability.
    I own two T01s, one in each calibre. For the reasons already set out above the 45 will always edge it. However these guns were stable mates in the Diana or should we say Original range back in the day and I think to put them into a collection together is quite appropriate indeed desirable in my book.
    The gun represents M&Gs last stab at producing a punchy underlever from the long established 50 format. As we all recall the 77 came along and swept all before it. As such the T01 did.not have that long as live and I'm not sure if this and maybe the Airsporter were the last of the tap loaders. A throwback to an older generation of guns.
    But dismiss the T01 at leisure and you may well be.missing out on a cracking bit of airgun nostalgia and general shooting fun. Sure it maybe cant hold a candle to some of the modern super breed springers but it can hold its own in amongst its contemporaries and even give some modern guns a run for their money. Some would say that its elongated and protruding underlever detracts from its forerunner but for ne I celebrate that difference not least because if like me you looked around for one to buy you will have a long wait.
    The quality of manufacturing still shines with the T01 and I fully enjoy using the tap loader as a change to a break barrel. As already said my two examples are nice n accurate but clearly as with all marques you will get examples that perhaps defy all attempts to group well. I think that will always be the case with the occasional odd gun.
    Mine is currently being used against the local grey squirrels quite effectively and any failings in its use have been on my part. Ive fettled the old girl and to me I cannot give it more respect than to reach for it from the rack in preference to my well fettled HW80.
    Glad you are enjoying yours Drew. Seems like we are a small band of enlightened fans your mate, you, n I
    I see you are north of the wall and so shouldn't have that many greys to worry over but if you do espy one of the little buggers I'm sure your T01 will spoil its fun and send it onto treetops new
    Dave
    Last edited by jonnyone; 23-07-2017 at 06:25 AM.

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    I bought one when they first came out to use in the new sport of Field Target shooting. It was one of the most expensive sporting spring rifles of the time. I bought it on the recommendation of an article in Air Gun World written by a bloke called Rod Lynton who may be known to some of you as an exaggerator at the very least. Being 16 I was more credulous than I am today. Mr Lynton said that it would group under an inch at 40 yards, which is why I bought it. I also knew the Original Diana 45, on which the 50T01 is based, was a terrifically accurate rifle - so the 50T01 had to be better, didn't it? It had a fixed barrel after all...

    Actual accuracy was about 3/4" at 25 yards with the best grouping pellet. I was disappointed. It seemed to have a very strong spring and recoilled heavily, which I put down to the power which the Airgun Centre said was 11.8 fpe. The first time I went to a competition with it, Dave Welham (before he went professional with AirMasters) said that they had bought one to test out, could not get it to group, had taken it back to the shop, tried two others and asked for his money back.



    I bought a special Apel mount which has been made for it.

    Negatives

    The scope ramp was made of soft metal and under the heavy recoil, the recoil stud on the mount gradually wore a groove in the front of the ramp.
    The plastic fore-sight slowly loosened and fell off the end of the barrel.
    The trigger was not particularly nice in terms of feel, nor in terms of the trigger blade, which was a stamping.
    Accuracy was very average, not nearly as good as my friend's Original Diana 45, nor as good as the old less powerful Model 50.
    The spring failed during a competition, leaving me with 6 fpe.
    The recoil was excessive considering the weight of the rifle.
    The under-lever sticking out beyond the stock is unsightly.
    The metal of the barrel seemed very soft and would scratch easily.
    The rear-sight was mounted too far forward, in front of the loading tap, whereas the old 50 had one mounted behind it, giving a long sight base.
    The use of plastic for the fore-sight unit and for the safety catch was surprising on a rifle that cost so much.
    The underlever hinge pin would work loose under recoil.
    The piston washer was still made of leather.

    Positives

    The high-comb cheek-piece-free stock is a very elegant and comfortable design.
    The metal rearsight with a revolving leaf with different notches is excellent.

    The Original Diana 50T01 is the worst single buy I have ever made. It was truly mediocre rifle at a premium price, I think it was even more expensive than the superlative Feinwerkbau Sport.

    The 12-year-old HW35 Export I bought after I sold the 50T01 at a massive loss was a far better rifle. The 50T01 has no charm nor purpose, and it is a shame it shares a name with the really very competent Original 50 from earlier times, which it has nothing in common with.

    I think very very few were bought because they are dreadful. Sales must have been 2% of that for the amazing 45, and most of the sales must have been to older people who were expecting an updated 50 with more power. They must have been disappointed. I was the single idiot in early FT to use one, it was nowhere near as good as the Feinwerkbau Sport which was 14 years its senior. The 50T01 didn't have to wait for the HW80 and HW77 to come out, it was obsolete the day it hit the shelves.

    Avoid.
    Last edited by Hsing-ee; 23-07-2017 at 01:38 PM.

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    Come on man, stop beating about the bush and say what you really mean. Seriously, I appreciate your viewpoint as it comes from first-hand experience. It sounds woeful though. A lemon and an oversprung lemon at that. I have experienced an oversprung T01 and i almost broke a tooth. But not all of them are like that.
    Several of those negatives could or should affect a 45 as the ramp (and presumably steel) trigger, blade, piston seal, safety catch are the same. I didn't know about the plastic foresight as mine is cast steel.
    I'm not at all sure it's completely without charm as it is after all 50 with 45 guts. Neither of which are lacking in character or purpose. But perhaps there are limits to it's design and its best run (with leather) at well under 12fpe. Giving a leather washered tap loader enough spring to approach 12 is probably a bad idea. Perhaps The Airgun Centre- tuned rifles!- they say, gave them some serious coils. Who knows.
    I'm glad I didn't judge the model from one example and tracked one down for myself. I'm enjoying the strange hybrid nobody bought.
    Last edited by Drew451; 23-07-2017 at 03:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    I bought one when they first came out to use in the new sport of Field Target shooting. It was one of the most expensive sporting spring rifles of the time. I bought it on the recommendation of an article in Air Gun World written by a bloke called Rod Lynton who may be known to some of you as an exaggerator at the very least. Being 16 I was more credulous than I am today. Mr Lynton said that it would group under an inch at 40 yards, which is why I bought it. I also knew the Original Diana 45, on which the 50T01 is based, was a terrifically accurate rifle - so the 50T01 had to be better, didn't it? It had a fixed barrel after all...

    Actual accuracy was about 3/4" at 25 yards with the best grouping pellet. I was disappointed. It seemed to have a very strong spring and recoilled heavily, which I put down to the power which the Airgun Centre said was 11.8 fpe. The first time I went to a competition with it, Dave Welham (before he went professional with AirMasters) said that they had bought one to test out, could not get it to group, had taken it back to the shop, tried two others and asked for his money back.



    I bought a special Apel mount which has been made for it.

    Negatives

    The scope ramp was made of soft metal and under the heavy recoil, the recoil stud on the mount gradually wore a groove in the front of the ramp.
    The plastic fore-sight slowly loosened and fell off the end of the barrel.
    The trigger was not particularly nice in terms of feel, nor in terms of the trigger blade, which was a stamping.
    Accuracy was very average, not nearly as good as my friend's Original Diana 45, nor as good as the old less powerful Model 50.
    The spring failed during a competition, leaving me with 6 fpe.
    The recoil was excessive considering the weight of the rifle.
    The under-lever sticking out beyond the stock is unsightly.
    The metal of the barrel seemed very soft and would scratch easily.
    The rear-sight was mounted too far forward, in front of the loading tap, whereas the old 50 had one mounted behind it, giving a long sight base.
    The use of plastic for the fore-sight unit and for the safety catch was surprising on a rifle that cost so much.
    The underlever hinge pin would work loose under recoil.
    The piston washer was still made of leather.

    Positives

    The high-comb cheek-piece-free stock is a very elegant and comfortable design.
    The metal rearsight with a revolving leaf with different notches is excellent.

    The Original Diana 50T01 is the worst single buy I have ever made. It was truly mediocre rifle at a premium price, I think it was even more expensive than the superlative Feinwerkbau Sport.

    The 12-year-old HW35 Export I bought after I sold the 50T01 at a massive loss was a far better rifle. The 50T01 has no charm nor purpose, and it is a shame it shares a name with the really very competent Original 50 from earlier times, which it has nothing in common with.

    I think very very few were bought because they are dreadful. Sales must have been 2% of that for the amazing 45, and most of the sales must have been to older people who were expecting an updated 50 with more power. They must have been disappointed. I was the single idiot in early FT to use one, it was nowhere near as good as the Feinwerkbau Sport which was 14 years its senior. The 50T01 didn't have to wait for the HW80 and HW77 to come out, it was obsolete the day it hit the shelves.

    Avoid.
    A very interesting trip down memory lane. A friend of mine bought Sterling HR83 and persevered with it for a whole season. It was at the time when the HW77 first arrived on the scene

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew451 View Post
    Come on man, stop beating about the bush and say what you really mean. Seriously, I appreciate your viewpoint as it comes from first-hand experience. It sounds woeful though. A lemon and an oversprung lemon at that. I have experienced an oversprung T01 and i almost broke a tooth. But not all of them are like that.
    Several of those negatives could or should affect a 45 as the ramp (and presumably steel) trigger, blade, piston seal, safety catch are the same. I didn't know about the plastic foresight as mine is cast steel.
    I'm not at all sure it's completely without charm as it is after all 50 with 45 guts. Neither of which are lacking in character or purpose. But perhaps there are limits to it's design and its best run (with leather) at well under 12fpe. Giving a leather washered tap loader enough spring to approach 12 is probably a bad idea. Perhaps The Airgun Centre- tuned rifles!- they say, gave them some serious coils. Who knows.
    I'm glad I didn't judge the model from one example and tracked one down for myself. I'm enjoying the strange hybrid nobody bought.
    YOu are right, memory failed me. The foresight was not plastic, it was Zamac or some other kind of rubbish. Thing was the muzzle had the dovetail grooves cut in it for a normal Original Diana foresight, so they were either being cheap or wanting the gun to look more 'futuristic' (cheap and tacky).

    It was a .177 so maybe it was more heavily spring than your .22. You may be right about the Airgun Centre, perhaps they went too far with the chrome vanadium Swedish steel spring... I usually find the most of the time the best spring is the one the factory fits.

    You did say you wanted malignancy! Also, Dave Welham maligned it, or rather dismissed it, and he is an expert rather than a keyboard warrior like myself. I hope you continue to enjoy your T01s as much as I disliked mine - as far as I know it was designed to go well over 12 fpe at least in .22. Modern pellets will help the accuracy a great deal.

    Don't try an original Original 50 though, because you will see how they took a good gun tradition and made it into something very average.
    Last edited by Hsing-ee; 23-07-2017 at 05:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by derekj View Post
    A very interesting trip down memory lane. A friend of mine bought Sterling HR83 and persevered with it for a whole season. It was at the time when the HW77 first arrived on the scene
    That is a bitter tale because the walnut stocked 83 (with the 'improved trigger') would have cost a far bit more than the 77 and could not match it in any area, except build quality. It was incredibly frustrating watching the British airgun industry make repeated attempts at bringing out a German-beating air-rifle and being wide of the target. Webley's Omega was the only one which really did match them and by the time their R&D department had finally got its act together it was all over.
    Last edited by Hsing-ee; 23-07-2017 at 05:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsing-ee View Post
    YOu are right, memory failed me. The foresight was not plastic, it was Zamac or some other kind of rubbish. Thing was the muzzle had the dovetail grooves cut in it for a normal Original Diana foresight, so they were either being cheap or wanting the gun to look more 'futuristic' (cheap and tacky).

    It was a .177 so maybe it was more heavily spring than your .22. You may be right about the Airgun Centre, perhaps they went too far with the chrome vanadium Swedish steel spring... I usually find the most of the time the best spring is the one the factory fits.

    You did say you wanted malignancy! Also, Dave Welham maligned it, or rather dismissed it, and he is an expert rather than a keyboard warrior like myself. I hope you continue to enjoy your T01s as much as I disliked mine - as far as I know it was designed to go well over 12 fpe at least in .22. Modern pellets will help the accuracy a great deal.

    Don't try an original Original 50 though, because you will see how they took a good gun tradition and made it into something very average.
    Ho ho. Ive got two Original 50's in addition to the T01.

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    Original 50T01

    I think the morale of this thread is that if a gun works for you, quite simply it works for you. If it doesn't, surprise, surprise, it doesn't. And this will clearly colour your view on the matter.
    For my part, I'm enjoying the gun and it's proving itself in my hands for the purpose that I apply it to. I've no doubt many- if not all, of the super accurate modern springers will pee all over it. History will also in time dictate what is good, bad, and indifferent amongst them.
    I once had to fettle a HW97 Centenary after it had been left cocked by mistake for over 6 months. I was genuinely shocked when I took the stock off to find two huge spot weld blobs on the front of the cylinder. So big in fact they forced the bifurcated stock section noticeably apart. I had to carefully grind the blobs down to more reasonable proportions to get it to sit in the stock properly.
    I'm glad I didn't judge all HWs by that single example. If I had I would never shell out a copper on one ever again. But I am sensible enough to realise that that gun went through quality control without due checks into the shops.
    We can all recount tales of woe with a particular make n model of gun. As I say above, if a gun works for you, it does just that.
    Keep enjoying the gun Drew. And get yourself a squirrel soon with it
    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyone View Post
    I've no doubt many- if not all, of the super accurate modern springers will pee all over it
    Dave
    The problem with it was that it's contemporaries pee'd all over it and they were cheaper!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew451 View Post
    Ho ho. Ive got two Original 50's in addition to the T01.
    Clearly a case of 'love is blind' then!

    One chap in AGW shortened the cocking lever so at least it looked quite nice. Enjoy!

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    I watched An American Werewolf in London about the same time as you experienced the T01 and it scared me shitless for years. I think the T01 appears to have damaged your young mind, similarly.
    I am enjoying the rifle so far, anyway. Not sure I'll be entering any FT comps with it but if it can keep doing what it's doing for me so far, I'll be happy. I have only shot it in isolation so can't make direct comparisons with any of its stalemates or urinating rivals. I may do and report back.
    Just think- there are two Typ 01's lurking not 15 miles from your house! Please don't have nightmares: please do sleep well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew451 View Post
    I watched An American Werewolf in London about the same time as you experienced the T01 and it scared me shitless for years. I think the T01 appears to have damaged your young mind, similarly.
    I am enjoying the rifle so far, anyway. Not sure I'll be entering any FT comps with it but if it can keep doing what it's doing for me so far, I'll be happy. I have only shot it in isolation so can't make direct comparisons with any of its stalemates or urinating rivals. I may do and report back.
    Just think- there are two Typ 01's lurking not 15 miles from your house! Please don't have nightmares: please do sleep well.
    I can't now you have reminded me of the American Werewolf In London. The nightmare sequence is very nightmare-inducing. At least Tottenham Court Road Tube Station has been redesigned so it is less werewolf-friendly. A checkpoint on the Tay Bridge could be set up to keep the 50T01s in Fife.

    I did actually come 6th or somewhere in the prize list from an entry of over 100 people with the T01 even at 6 fpe so it cannot have been all that bad. That's the thing when you are maligning stuff, you focus on the bad. It just cost me so much money!

    If I had one today I would see about replacing the leather washer with a parachute from Vortek to increase efficiency, get the right spring for it and maybe sort a trigger shoe or tweak as well as doing something about the cocking lever. Like I said, nice stock on them.

    Maybe I should buy one.
    Last edited by Hsing-ee; 23-07-2017 at 10:02 PM.

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    Ho ho. Im imagining road signs northbound on the bridge with 50 T01s crossed out. Well, maybe you should get another one: AWIL is now one of my favourite films.
    I have never yet had a leather sealed Diana converted to synthetic but I am starting to consider it. Mind you, all were bought used and ive only had two apart. There may be polyurethane lurking in one. I'm generally pleased with all of mine apart from one 35 Super that may have been built on the same Friday afternoon/ Monday morning as your T01. By the same man working his notice.
    That's a story for another day.

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