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Thread: Can I go shorter??

  1. #1
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    Can I go shorter??

    I'm using a Howa 1500 .243 RWS brass with Federal Large Rifle Primers, Vit N150 (I know 140 would be better but I haven't got any) powder and 75grn Hornady A Max.

    OK, I made a dummy round which I chambered to fit my rifle and measured at COAL of 2.7425"

    Knock off the .0005" as no-one is that good then take off a thou to clear the lands and i made 5 batches of 5 rounds at:

    2.732
    2.722
    2.712
    2.702
    2.692

    I'm happy the powder is consistent and the length has been measured correctly.

    And at 100yds I'm getting 3" groups which clearly isn't good enough. There's not even a trend towards tighter groups as the COAL decreases.

    So.....shall I keep going shorter or am I just a crap shot? The factory ammo is quite a bit shorter than my reloaded stuff but I know it has to be.

    Any ideas?

    Cheers..
    BSA Ultra .177 - Walther Terrus .177 - Marlin Model 80 .22lr - Mossberg 817 .17hmr - Howa 1500 .243 - Gunmark Kestrel 12g - Franchi 612vs 12g
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.....

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil384 View Post
    I'm using a Howa 1500 .243 RWS brass with Federal Large Rifle Primers, Vit N150 (I know 140 would be better but I haven't got any) powder and 75grn Hornady A Max.

    OK, I made a dummy round which I chambered to fit my rifle and measured at COAL of 2.7425"

    Knock off the .0005" as no-one is that good then take off a thou to clear the lands and i made 5 batches of 5 rounds at:

    2.732
    2.722
    2.712
    2.702
    2.692

    I'm happy the powder is consistent and the length has been measured correctly.

    And at 100yds I'm getting 3" groups which clearly isn't good enough. There's not even a trend towards tighter groups as the COAL decreases.

    So.....shall I keep going shorter or am I just a crap shot? The factory ammo is quite a bit shorter than my reloaded stuff but I know it has to be.

    Any ideas?

    Cheers..
    The chaps I shoot with using .308 have a jump of 15 -20 tho so I would think that you can go shorter. How does the factory ammo group ?
    Carry on backing off (5 thou increments) to see if you get any improvement in groups.
    ATB
    James

  3. #3
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    Ok thanks, I'll keep reducing it.
    BSA Ultra .177 - Walther Terrus .177 - Marlin Model 80 .22lr - Mossberg 817 .17hmr - Howa 1500 .243 - Gunmark Kestrel 12g - Franchi 612vs 12g
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.....

  4. #4
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    Chap on here I know had a best group with 120 thou jump.

    But to save reloads, as mentioned about, I'd start going back in 20s.

    Doesn't sound like it groups well at all. Have you tried cleaning it

  5. #5
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    Yep, cleaned between each string.

    So what do you suggest for the next 5 batches?

    2.672
    2.652
    2.632
    2.612
    2.592

    ???
    BSA Ultra .177 - Walther Terrus .177 - Marlin Model 80 .22lr - Mossberg 817 .17hmr - Howa 1500 .243 - Gunmark Kestrel 12g - Franchi 612vs 12g
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.....

  6. #6
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    Wotcher Phil

    been running the light fodder (87, 84 ,70 gn. bullets at 2.66 "- 2.67 " - no complaints, under 1 inch.

    Browning A Bolt, IMR4064 or Vit. 140.

    HTH
    Col

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughshooter View Post
    Wotcher Phil

    been running the light fodder (87, 84 ,70 gn. bullets at 2.66 "- 2.67 " - no complaints, under 1 inch.

    Browning A Bolt, IMR4064 or Vit. 140.

    HTH
    Col
    Different rifles obviously but unless I hear a big NOOOOOOO! I'll carry on with my next lot of batches from 2.592 up to 2.672 in 20 thou jumps.

    Thanks
    BSA Ultra .177 - Walther Terrus .177 - Marlin Model 80 .22lr - Mossberg 817 .17hmr - Howa 1500 .243 - Gunmark Kestrel 12g - Franchi 612vs 12g
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.....

  8. #8
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    what COAL does your reloading manual say for that bullet? failing that load to the same length as a similar factory round and then play with your powder charge until you are happy with the grouping, you can then mess with the COAL if you wish to see if it tightens the group.
    Viht data gives 2.638" for COAL
    "Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement"
    Sir Humphry Appleby

  9. #9
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    I thought powder charge affects the velocity and COAL affects the accuracy?
    BSA Ultra .177 - Walther Terrus .177 - Marlin Model 80 .22lr - Mossberg 817 .17hmr - Howa 1500 .243 - Gunmark Kestrel 12g - Franchi 612vs 12g
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.....

  10. #10
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    I like that mantra.

    As long as the powder is somewhere in the middle of the range given in the books.

    You haven't said what you are getting with factory?

    If a lot better than something is wrong.

    Are you using a lee neck die by any chance? If so you could be having inconsistent neck tension if you aren't giving it that last 10% of welly needed to finish it off. And turning it 90 degrees and doing it again can help.

    It could be you jsut have to admit defeat and go get the right powder. I've never had a rifle shoot that bad which leads me to believe its something more than powder/COL.

    It is the same manufacturer's brass?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil384 View Post
    I thought powder charge affects the velocity and COAL affects the accuracy?
    nope otherwise factory ammo wouldn't hit squat! get your powder charge sorted out and then if you must play with the length to get the minimum group dispersion, too many people spend too much time fretting about the jump to the lands before getting the rifle shooting well.
    fine tuning the charge and the length will definitely show you the best from your rifle, but with 3MOA groups you are waaaaay from that at the moment, get the basics sorted out and then look at the detail.
    "Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement"
    Sir Humphry Appleby

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
    nope otherwise factory ammo wouldn't hit squat! get your powder charge sorted out and then if you must play with the length to get the minimum group dispersion, too many people spend too much time fretting about the jump to the lands before getting the rifle shooting well.
    I have to say I've found the complete opposite. COL has made all the difference, powder change just makes the group go in different places (within reason). Sure if you have the wrong COL then powder changes might result in a nice group, but not consistently.

    Just my 2p

    And if its raining then this and part 2 is worth watching. But skip the bits about concentricity and come back when you have 1/2 moa groups.

  13. #13
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    I started playing the video and noticed the first one is 2 hours long, defo a rainy day video!

    Anyone want to buy some N150 powder. It's OK for .308
    BSA Ultra .177 - Walther Terrus .177 - Marlin Model 80 .22lr - Mossberg 817 .17hmr - Howa 1500 .243 - Gunmark Kestrel 12g - Franchi 612vs 12g
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.....

  14. #14
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    You've still not said the group size with factory??

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullbarrel View Post
    I like that mantra.

    As long as the powder is somewhere in the middle of the range given in the books.

    You haven't said what you are getting with factory?

    If a lot better than something is wrong.

    Are you using a lee neck die by any chance? If so you could be having inconsistent neck tension if you aren't giving it that last 10% of welly needed to finish it off. And turning it 90 degrees and doing it again can help.

    It could be you jsut have to admit defeat and go get the right powder. I've never had a rifle shoot that bad which leads me to believe its something more than powder/COL.

    It is the same manufacturer's brass?
    Yep always RWS brass

    And the neck turning thing is worth a try.
    BSA Ultra .177 - Walther Terrus .177 - Marlin Model 80 .22lr - Mossberg 817 .17hmr - Howa 1500 .243 - Gunmark Kestrel 12g - Franchi 612vs 12g
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.....

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