Zoom scopes....are we being sold a kipper?

[harvey_s]

Having decided to replace my old Olympus bino's...I did my research and duly selected a nice set of 10 x 42's and I'm very, very pleased with them.
But now the thought occurs that generally zoom optics are classed as inferior in performance to fixed power optics and generally I tend to leave my scopes set on one power unless I'm trying some new idea out (before usually going back to how it was previously ) it mucks up the mildots unless you either are using a FFP scope or keep a book of all the various range points.
So are we all buying zoom scopes like trained monkeys or is fixed mag where the smart money goes....?

[LESS THAN FORTUITOUS KENNETH]

Depends on what you use the scope for.
For FT you want a big mag with a big front end with a narrow depth of field for rangefinding. Mil dots are not really relevant as these scopes would be dialled in.
Hunting/hft is better suited to a fixed mag with a big depth of field as you don't have time to rangefind and dial in. Thats when the mil dots come in.
Horses for courses.

[Muskett]

Mildots are too course to be much use for anything much, even the military use finer reticle hash systems.

High power magnification has its place but sure we are succours to the success of the progress made in the equipment.
Rabbits can be head shot to 60m with a x4 mag scope all day long.
Deer can be heart/lung shot to 200m all day long with a x6 mag scope.
Pigeon can be head shot to 30m all day long with a x9.
Rats solid head/chest to farmyard ranges with open sights.

More stuff is missed from faffing about with the kit than using that time to make one good shot of it. Setting up correctly and making it count.

Much of the reason is because target shooting has gone to another level. Its gone beyond heart rate with precision in every department. Locktime, triggers, barrels, ammunition, bullets, powders, primers, brass, head spacing, stocks and combs, optics and ballistics. We have never nat driven so small. Make the combo heavy, stable, repeatable and hyper velocity enough and marksmanship is less critical.

I'm as guilty as the next man along the firing point. Think we are losing something in the process.

[Jimny4x4]

Like most people after a time you end up with a small box of spare scopes . Of all the ones I have tested to use , only those few that I want to keep are either fixed mag , or if a zoom , were found to be at their best at only a single fixed mag power ( usually at x3 or x4 on a 3-9x40 ).

And I was surprised that some big name scopes I had been keeping back and never tried , that just happened to be zooms , were utterly dreadful especially when compared to some budget makes .

[Muskett]

Just shot my modest air rifle collection with their various scopes.
At 25m, on a white card I try to hit the last pellet hole.

The 4x40 Optima on a 127 FWB Sport clusters on and around the mark.
The 6x40 Tasco on a tuned HW95 clusters tight on and in the mark.
The 3-9x45 Moonlighter on a 124 FWB Sport does the same.
The 3-9x40 Tasco on an Original 45 does the same.
The 4-12x40 AO B&L on both a Park 91 and 93 do one enlarged hole.
The 6-24x40 AO B&L on a Venom HW77 does a smal hole.
The last two Park and Venom are able to do one .177 hole, just; so its the refinement of massive magnification that can get that much precision. On rifle combinations that can't do one calibre hole then massive magnification won't fix that.

Unless I throw one.

What high mag variable can give is a tighter group if the rifle is able and the marksmanship and firing set up does its part. Shows the full potential to the combination, but also the limitations of the combo. Very High mag requires a stable platform, gives less FOV, and shows up every wobble to the point that over compensating the wobble adds to the wobble. So much sight picture movement and "lust" for precision generally means that the shot takes far longer to release. Letting your body relax fully takes an age anyhow. In the field thats not much use as at normal ranges all thats required is a solid central hit done fairly swiftly. Swiftly, not fast, as one well aimed and executed shot can't be rushed.

Anyhow, the truth is its all to do with what your intension is. High mag can only be utilised from a solid platform, without that its more of a hinderance. Choose a scope to suit the application and match the rifle, and the KISS the better.

[flyingfish]

I have moved to fixed power 10x on 2 of my rifles. Found that I kept my adjustable power scopes around that anyway

Pete

[rhyslightnin]

Now I love my 4x & 6x meopta's they serve the rifles they are mounted on beautifully, Ballance, weight, eye alignment & reticle perfect for there uses. The 6 is on my theoben evo, great all-round scope for 10-75yrds lots of fun no frills no over complex thought process just point & squeeze. The 4 is on my r10, again similar strategy here but shorter ranges... It's ideal for 5-30 yards (around the farm), nice simple 4a Ret easy acquisition, great fov & clarity & surprisingly accurate as it has a very fine cross hair in between quite heavy no4 posts.
Now., I was totally sold on the fixed mag and I still kinda am but I took my huntsman out the other day (open fields) and I stalked onto 3 rabbit at different spacings & distances.. 25, 28, 38 yards. I had good cover & plenty of time to sit, range, select magnification and do a "shot plan"! Because of the way they were facing I took the 28 & then 25 first on 7mag (my STD go to setting on this scope) & then up to 12mag with a bit of hold over for the 38yarder. (My scope being 2nd focal means the hash markers are true at 12x and I can clearly see the rabbits head & target area). It all came together beautifully with 3 wabbits in the bag with 3 shots in maybe 4mins of faffing & 1-2mins of shooting.On this same day I had a squirrel park itself on a fence post 10yrd away.. first thing I did was wind the mag down to 4x and raised the rifle.., pfft! & He was down. Now I'd calculated all of those shots (apart from the squirrel which I took using my go to farm gun mag of 4x) & decided on the plan which I think the zoom scope played an integral part of as I'm not sure I'd have been so confident in perfect shot placement with a fixed 6.
So my conclusion to it is you don't need mega mag or a zoom scope but sometimes it can really pay off if you know what your doing with it. The problem I've experienced with zoom is fiddling too much, but if given the right circumstances I think it can really help, it takes just a bit of learning and being honest about where the best mag spots are, mine being 4,7&12
Atb
Rhys

[Steyr]

Having decided to replace my old Olympus bino's...I did my research and duly selected a nice set of 10 x 42's and I'm very, very pleased with them.
But now the thought occurs that generally zoom optics are classed as inferior in performance to fixed power optics and generally I tend to leave my scopes set on one power unless I'm trying some new idea out (before usually going back to how it was previously ) it mucks up the mildots unless you either are using a FFP scope or keep a book of all the various range points.
So are we all buying zoom scopes like trained monkeys or is fixed mag where the smart money goes....?

Your argument and assertions as to why people buy zooms and how people use zooms is far too simplistic.

I have cheaper zooms and I have top end zooms. The use is very different. Can be comp...can be hunting...can be Long Range lead dropping.....

You pays your money...you get what you pay for.

There are many ways to use and shoot a zoom scope that do not carry the disadvantages you mention.

They are a useful tool bought by people who do not use or do not know the abilities or the way to use them. Overall...a good feature ut thats not to say there isnt a pile of crap gear out there too.

[harvey_s]

Your argument and assertions as to why people buy zooms and how people use zooms is far too simplistic.

I have cheaper zooms and I have top end zooms. The use is very different. Can be comp...can be hunting...can be Long Range lead dropping.....

You pays your money...you get what you pay for.

There are many ways to use and shoot a zoom scope that do not carry the disadvantages you mention.

They are a useful tool bought by people who do not use or do not know the abilities or the way to use them. Overall...a good feature ut thats not to say there isnt a pile of crap gear out there too.

Maybe you've missed the point I was trying to make...(badly perhaps )

Yes, absolutely I accept that there are some people (FT shooters for example) that will make good use of high mag zoom scopes.
But there are lots of people out there (me included) that have bought zoom scopes and then rarely use the facility because they either have no real need to use that aspect or their particular discipline does not require it (LSR and HFT to name just two)...

For these people would a fixed power scope at the same price have probably netted them a better optic or has the zoom become all pervasive and it only gets really better with high end scopes?
Should we be seriously thinking more about fixed power scopes then perhaps we do?

It was just a thought...

[robs5230]

Maybe you've missed the point I was trying to make...(badly perhaps )

Yes, absolutely I accept that there are some people (FT shooters for example) that will make good use of high mag zoom scopes.
But there are lots of people out there (me included) that have bought zoom scopes and then rarely use the facility because they either have no real need to use that aspect or their particular discipline does not require it (LSR and HFT to name just two)...

For these people would a fixed power scope at the same price have probably netted them a better optic or has the zoom become all pervasive and it only gets really better with high end scopes?
Should we be seriously thinking more about fixed power scopes then perhaps we do?

It was just a thought...

I mainly hunt but zero on a range and plot out the holdover to 55 yards. I have the same scope on all my rifles and always leave it at the same fixed power on all of them. I'd rather use a spotting scope when zeroing to check grouping than alter the mag.
The market seems to be deciding that zoom scopes are the thing to buy. I'd rather see a fixed 4x power scope in the range I use and if one came available I'd swap every one over.
Fixed power scopes only seem available in very budget ranges or high end with none in between thereby limiting choice so all mine are 3-9x40.

[johnbaz]

I have quite a few binoculars and have found with the zoom type that if you focus in on a low mag then operate the zoom, Almost invariably you have to refocus!!

I was told by an elderly gent that has been in to optical suff for a large part of his life not to touch zoom bin's, He never said anything about scopes though!!

Btw, I just bought a cracking set of bin's from the bootsale for £4 Japanese Super Zenith 10x50, Clarity and brightness is superb!! I always thought that Zenith were cheap tat that didn't perform, Can't believe how good these are though!!


John

[Geezer]

I have a lot of time for used Leupold M8 fixed powers: 4x28, 4x33, 6x36, 6x42. Bombproof, nice looking, and unfashionable enough to be (comparatively) inexpensive - often under £100 if you wait for a good deal.

[harvey_s]

Fixed power scopes only seem available in very budget ranges or high end with none in between thereby limiting choice so all mine are 3-9x40.

yep, spot on what I was suggesting...and perhaps this is intentional on the part of the scope manufacturers?

[Shed tuner]

yep, spot on what I was suggesting...and perhaps this is intentional on the part of the scope manufacturers?

Bushnell elite 10x40 is a great midrange fixed mag scope - I have several

But I agree with your point generally...

[robs5230]

yep, spot on what I was suggesting...and perhaps this is intentional on the part of the scope manufacturers?

I reckon manufacturers have just followed market trends and are making for the FT / HFT market in the main.
The hunting shooter is really being ignored.
If BSA brought out a 4x40 or 6x40 in their Essential range, I'd buy 6 straight away.