Zoom scopes....are we being sold a kipper?

[Ranyhyn]

6x is a good workman-like mag. Very versatile for accurate shooting out to 200 yards comfortably.
10 X is nice for technical shooting as the maths is very simple.
A zoom that crosses 10 X is useful.. like 4_12 or 4_16.
Would pay for the quality of glass in a 6x rather than the gizmos on a zoom.
A nice crisp and bright sight picture for me..

[angrybear]

6x is a good workman-like mag. Very versatile for accurate shooting out to 200 yards comfortably.
10 X is nice for technical shooting as the maths is very simple.
A zoom that crosses 10 X is useful.. like 4_12 or 4_16.
Would pay for the quality of glass in a 6x rather than the gizmos on a zoom.
A nice crisp and bright sight picture for me..

Your idea of "accurate" & mine obviously differ somewhat At 200yds on 6x the + of the reticle completely obscures the head of a Rabbit, How can you place an accurate shot IE within the size of a rabbits brain, when 3 or 4 times the size of the target area is actually obstructed from view ???

Yes it might be "accurate enough" for a body mass shot but barely, Granted if you have a target the size of a side plate, (like heart/lungs of a deer or body of a fox) you can probably see enough around the edges to judge where the centre is, but to hit a rabbit just behind the eye you need enough mag to be able to aim "just behind the eye".

[sarfarm]

Your idea of "accurate" & mine obviously differ somewhat At 200yds on 6x the + of the reticle completely obscures the head of a Rabbit, How can you place an accurate shot IE within the size of a rabbits brain, when 3 or 4 times the size of the target area is actually obstructed from view ???

Yes it might be "accurate enough" for a body mass shot but barely, Granted if you have a target the size of a side plate, (like heart/lungs of a deer or body of a fox) you can probably see enough around the edges to judge where the centre is, but to hit a rabbit just behind the eye you need enough mag to be able to aim "just behind the eye".

Never met anyone who shoots rabbits at 200yds normal seems to be below 50 so a 3 power should do the job.
As a youngster I used to effectively take out rabbits with an airsporter on metal sights,just think it has more to do with image than need,or lack of skill.
What do the miltary do then with their service rifles,three power seems quite common for use out to 300yds

[angrybear]

Never met anyone who shoots rabbits at 200yds normal seems to be below 50 so a 3 power should do the job.
As a youngster I used to effectively take out rabbits with an airsporter on metal sights,just think it has more to do with image than need,or lack of skill.
What do the miltary do then with their service rifles,three power seems quite common for use out to 300yds

Iron sights are enough at 300yds ON A MAN SIZE TARGET where you aim at centre mass

The whole point of the argument over sights/scope mag is down to the required degree of accuracy for the target size,
so the OP question "are we being sold a kipper ?" is down to what an individual shooter requires, for the target & range they're shooting at

PS, I never said I shoot rabbits at 200yds, although some people do, I was simply pointing out the previous highlighted statement was not true for that size of target.

[sarfarm]

Iron sights are enough at 300yds ON A MAN SIZE TARGET where you aim at centre mass

The whole point of the argument over sights/scope mag is down to the required degree of accuracy for the target size,
so the OP question "are we being sold a kipper ?" is down to what an individual shooter requires, for the target & range they're shooting at

PS, I never said I shoot rabbits at 200yds, although some people do, I was simply pointing out the previous highlighted statement was not true for that size of target.

Totally agree with your comments but I still think most of the scopes now are sold with all the gimmiks to create sales because many people will buy them to keep up with others.
A lower powered scope with high quality glass will still out perform most of the others.
Do you not agree that at normal air gun range even iron sights can produce a safe and effective shot.

[harvey_s]

Iron sights are enough at 300yds ON A MAN SIZE TARGET where you aim at centre mass

The whole point of the argument over sights/scope mag is down to the required degree of accuracy for the target size,
so the OP question "are we being sold a kipper ?" is down to what an individual shooter requires, for the target & range they're shooting at

PS, I never said I shoot rabbits at 200yds, although some people do, I was simply pointing out the previous highlighted statement was not true for that size of target.

The OP (me) wasn't asking about degrees of magnification...merely whether we would be better spending our hard-earnt on a fixed power scope with (in theory) better optics rather than the all pervasive zoom offerings being pushed by the manufacturer's which should be compromised at the same price point by the zoom complication?

[angrybear]

Totally agree with your comments but I still think most of the scopes now are sold with all the gimmiks to create sales because many people will buy them to keep up with others.
A lower powered scope with high quality glass will still out perform most of the others.
Do you not agree that at normal air gun range even iron sights can produce a safe and effective shot.

I agree that at their zero range iron sights can be fairly accurate, but once you need hold over they completely obscure a small target.
I also completely agree that they have all the gimmicks as a marketing ploy, I've never in my life needed an illuminated ret to take a shot, but on most shots I'll adjust the mag to what feels comfortable for the conditions.

However I don't agree that a lower/fixed power scope will out perform in the majority of situations, it will when the variable mag scope is set the same but the whole point is that when the situation changes the variable mag can change to better suit that changed situation.

[angrybear]

The OP (me) wasn't asking about degrees of magnification...merely whether we would be better spending our hard-earnt on a fixed power scope with (in theory) better optics rather than the all pervasive zoom offerings being pushed by the manufacturer's which should be compromised at the same price point by the zoom complication?

Not unless you always shoot under the specific conditions & range that best suit that specific fixed mag.

[Parabuteo]

Never met anyone who shoots rabbits at 200yds normal seems to be below 50 so a 3 power should do the job.
As a youngster I used to effectively take out rabbits with an airsporter on metal sights,just think it has more to do with image than need,or lack of skill.
What do the miltary do then with their service rifles,three power seems quite common for use out to 300yds

The ELCAN Specter DR is a 1 or 4.5x scope made in Canada for the mob and used alongside the SUSAT, ACOG etc. The 1 x simply switches to 4.5 for normal shooting, 1 x being for CQB.

4x or in some cases 6x for section weapons seems to be the norm. A decent rifle with decent ammo can do very well out to 600.

I own 2 Spectres and the usual comment is the massive FOV and the quality of the optics. Have as much mag as you like but if the image is poor or internal mechanics are pants you may as well use irons. This can then be used as a scope or a red dot for close in stuff, it also allows you to confirm your target number should you recoil off.

Our own CSR SO/PO shoots go out to 600 and those of us using 4x do fine thanks very much...as long as you realise how much effect a light breeze has at 500...FFS!! ( shot a belting group at 500 on sunday but the light wind dropped and dumped the MPI smack bang between the outer (5) ring on the 11 and the edge....Arggghhhhh!! Went where I aimed which normally would be a good thing.

BUT... We are aiming at targets that wont suffer if we get it wrong