Zoom scopes....are we being sold a kipper?

[Muskett]

Hunting scopes are for full bore, few are parallaxed to air rifle ranges. Have to go down to x4 to work at very close farmyard ranges. x8 or x10 really require side parallax and no one goes there as may as well go variable. As it is air rifle has got more sophisticated and many demanding even higher power for parallax range finding.
Scope manufacturers are only recently taking note of what people actually want. The American market leads.

[Steyr]

Maybe you've missed the point I was trying to make...(badly perhaps )

Yes, absolutely I accept that there are some people (FT shooters for example) that will make good use of high mag zoom scopes.
But there are lots of people out there (me included) that have bought zoom scopes and then rarely use the facility because they either have no real need to use that aspect or their particular discipline does not require it (LSR and HFT to name just two)...

For these people would a fixed power scope at the same price have probably netted them a better optic or has the zoom become all pervasive and it only gets really better with high end scopes?
Should we be seriously thinking more about fixed power scopes then perhaps we do?

It was just a thought...

No I didnt miss the point. The point is the zoom facility can be used to good effect if you know what your doi g and have the reason to need it.
The problem is that to add zoom and do it well will add a lot of wonga.
Most people do t use zoom other than to see something bigger or to see a wider fid of view. Even cheap scope zooms can be used to very good effect if you know the issues the scope has - typically a significant shift in poi.
Most people do not understand it... and dont use the adjustment to their advantave.
Zoom has comsiderable disadvantages too so unless one has a specific reason to use zoom....and you know how to overcome the issues...then zoom can sometimes be more of a hinderance than a help

[harvey_s]

No I didnt miss the point. The point is the zoom facility can be used to good effect if you know what your doi g and have the reason to need it.
The problem is that to add zoom and do it well will add a lot of wonga.
Most people do t use zoom other than to see something bigger or to see a wider fid of view. Even cheap scope zooms can be used to very good effect if you know the issues the scope has - typically a significant shift in poi.
Most people do not understand it... and dont use the adjustment to their advantave.
Zoom has comsiderable disadvantages too so unless one has a specific reason to use zoom....and you know how to overcome the issues...then zoom can sometimes be more of a hinderance than a help

I think most people are aware if zoom is a useful feature to them or not...and a lot of them are purchasing zooms, but just not using the facility because either the choice of something in fixed power was sadly lacking or maybe the initial thought was appealling, but they settled on one power because it suited.

Usage aside though, the question still remains though - are the manufacturer's pushing lower quality zooms over higher quality fixed scopes at the same price point?

As others have pointed out the low cost end is well served and the high end too - but there is not much at the mid price point these days.
Edgar Brothers used to offer the seemingly well regarded 10x42 Opti-mate, but I think that has gone now...

[Ooopz]

The point is the zoom facility can be used to good effect if you know what your doi g ......
Even cheap scope zooms can be used to very good effect if you know the issues the scope has - typically a significant shift in poi.
Most people do not understand it... and dont use the adjustment to their advantave.
Zoom has comsiderable disadvantages too so unless one has a specific reason to use zoom....and you know how to overcome the issues...then zoom can sometimes be more of a hinderance than a help

Hi Steyr,

would you mind elaborating for the sake of us novices

[dearne75]

I have one of these - it is a very good scope, albeit a bit low mag for me for anything other than ratting...

mine,s doin fine from 1983.lovely scope.nice clear picture.

[jumbuck]

Everyone have their own ideas and preferences. I personally only do vermin and occasional powder session at Bisley.
For Air rifle I like 3-9X50AO for LR 4-12x50AO and 4-16x50SF for CF and happy with Dup-Plex or simple mildot but my preference doesn't reflect reality
My air rifles range from 3-9x40AO to 4-16x42SF on the R7 FAC and powder 4.5-14x50AO up!!!!!!!
My excuse is and no disrespect for those who do, as I said personal preference but personally am not keen on Chinese glass. My glass is older Japanese, Korean and Philippines hence mishaps mash

[harry mac]

To an extent, I think we are being hyped into buying scopes that are either too big or too complicated for 99% of what we do. I am not a dyed in the wool advocate of the "fixed is best" school of thought, I've tried that on my stalking rifles and found that a zoom gives you far more flexibility.
I very seldom hunt with an air rifle any more; once a year thinning out a rookery, or the odd squirrel seems to be about it, and all my air rifles now wear either a billy basic 4x32, or a 4x40.
My stalking rifles are all fitted with mid-range zooms, max mag is x10, and my biggest objective lens is 48mm.
If you look through the classifieds on either here or on Stalking directory, most of the scopes for sale are either the "whistles and bells", 6-24x, PA, Mil-dot types, or, surprisingly, fixed 8x56. The scopes which tend not to crop up very often are the mid-range zooms, such as 3-9x40, or 3-9x36 or fixed 6x42. That's not because nobody has them any more, but because once you've got one, you tend to keep it.
As for zooms shifting POI when zoomed in or out, I think that on a half decent scope, that's a thing of the past. The only scope I've ever had which displayed this trait was an old Hunter 2-7x20 air rifle scope.
I'm going to jam a tin hat firmly on my head here, and say that "the most over rated scope on the market is the Schmidt & Bender 8x56".

[harvey_s]

I'm going to jam a tin hat firmly on my head here, and say that "the most over rated scope on the market is the Schmidt & Bender 8x56".

Out of interest why?... I always thought S&B had a good reputation, but I've never owned one.

[harry mac]

Out of interest why?... I always thought S&B had a good reputation, but I've never owned one.

I bought mine after seeing it recommended time and time again. When it arrived it was hard not to be impressed by it. Fabulous packaging and literature, solid build quality, the like of which you have to handle to appreciate. Beautiful lens coating, and adjustment clicks that feel like a Swiss watch. The whole package just oozed quality.
In use though, I was left a bit frustrated. My main use for a rifle these days is woodland deer stalking, shots might have to be taken as close as 15 yards, with 100 being a long shot. I found that at ranges of less than about 50 yards, I was having to use my eye muscles to focus the scope, or, if I set the focus for short range either the image or the reticle would be slightly out of focus, not by much, but it became irritating. 50 yards plus it was great, until, one day I was presented with a partially obscured muntjac at about 200 yards across a field. On this occasion I found the 8x mag to be a bit lacking.
At that time, the scope I had (and still have) on my other stalking rifle was a Docter 2.5-10x48, and I found that to be a much better scope in every situation. I even compared them in low light side by side. Even when set on 8x mag, the Docter was slightly better than the Schmidt. Eventually, I sold the Schmidt on and replaced it with another Docter 2.5-10x48.
If you look thorough the classified adds on The Stalking Directory, I'd say that the Schmidt 8x56 is possibly the single most offered for sale scope.

[angrybear]

Out of interest why?... I always thought S&B had a good reputation, but I've never owned one.

Over rated doesn't mean bad, it just means "over rated" because once people try to outdo each other heaping praise on, it becomes self fuelling, while people who might, god forbid, point out that it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread simply keep quiet.
It can equally be said about other scopes as well, several spring to mind that are without doubt good at what they do, but are so over hyped it's hard to believe.

Variable mag has it's place particularly in the field where you can scan for a target at low mag then zoom in to take the shot once you spot your prey.

As for POI moving as the mag changes, in most cases it doesn't
What happens is that at low mag the reticle covers a huge area of the target so you simply aren't aiming at the same spot
dial up the mag & instead of the cross covering a target area maybe 20-30mm square it becomes a line only 1-2mm wide, so obviously when the POA is more accurate so the POI will be.

[jumbuck]

It's all about respect opinions of the individual. For instance my Hawke Japanese made Frontiers to me are fantastically clear optically unyet when a Nightforce owner looked through it they were verbally unkind. When I looked through his Nightforce yes it was clearer over same distance but not enough to warrant it's price tag and I hit the target the same as he did Personally I don't mock the cheapest to the expensive as they all do the job within the budget. I've used some right cheap ole sitters with success and that's what matters at the end of the day

[Roundshot]

Im gonna sound a touch nuts to a few on here but best hunting scope i ever used was a simple 2.75 x 40 Tasco with a simple duel x....bit of an unusual mag i know.

I don't recall that spec of Tasco but did have a Tasco 2.5 x 32 with Apel once-piece on a 77 back in '84 and like you found it quite adequate for rabbits.

[sarfarm]

Bushnell Legend 3x9 x40 non OA,simple to operate and no bits to fiddle with,perfect out to 200yds.
If you were a scope manufacturer you would keep bringing out a new scope with lots of fiddly bits on it,why else would anyone want to buy a new scope.
Show off a 24 power scope to everyone and they all want one,good business.

[Rickenbacker]

I don't recall that spec of Tasco but did have a Tasco 2.5 x 32 with Apel once-piece on a 77 back in '84 and like you found it quite adequate for rabbits.

I'd forgotten the Tasco 2.75x40 myself Ted.

Now I seem to recall that it may have been popular fitted to a 10M match rifle, for running boar / running target comp' shooting in the 1970s/80s...

Phil

[Roundshot]

I'd forgotten the Tasco 2.75x40 myself Ted.

Now I seem to recall that it may have been popular fitted to a 10M match rifle, for running boar / running target comp' shooting in the 1970s/80s...

Phil

Indeed Phil old chap, never came across the blighter either!