Posted at buyer's risk...

[harvey_s]

Seeing this quite a lot now on Sales threads...

Who the hell would sign up to this arrangement?...not me for sure.
I bet the seller wouldn't expect to buy hundreds of pounds worth of gear to be posted to THEM at their risk

Theres even ad there now for a pistol being offered in this way despite RMSD insurance being available to cover the full cost!

I know it gets difficult with air rifles over £100 - but it's the sellers risk, if you don't want the risk then don't sell it that way.

It just seems greedy on the the part of the seller who doesn't want to share selling costs with RFD transfer which avoids the risk to both parties.

[Muskett]

I agree, but postage costs and buyers expecting post included then for those without a courier business account its another whack off the asking price.
I try not to post rifles as too many get snapped even with masses of packaging.

Some collectors will make the effort to drive miles to ensure they are getting exactly what they want and safely. Everyday kit then others wouldn't get out of bed to open the door.
With online retailers delivering everything for free then the expectation from the buying public is so should everyone else. Private sales is not a business, so no way to clain the costs back.

I've stopped including post on anything over £100. Just too much. Less expensive then I rarely pay insurance if I do include post as its a fiver a time and a claim takes several hours paper work. Rare for something to go amiss.

Anyhow tomorrow I'm meeting half way on a rifle sell. Safer that way. Its a hobby, goes with the territory.

[tinbum]

It's only put by those who've read it and thought it sounded good. Under UK law it is the responsibility of the seller until it is recieved by the buyer. If they don't know that I don't trust them to have looked after the gun properly, so it's a self-solving issue.

[March]

There's still a risk, rfd to rfd transfer. If you have a Muppet that signs for a damaged parcel !!. It happened to me . Once signed for, there's no claim for damaged parcel.

[Blackrider]

I agree, but postage costs and buyers expecting post included then for those without a courier business account its another whack off the asking price.
I try not to post rifles as too many get snapped even with masses of packaging.

Some collectors will make the effort to drive miles to ensure they are getting exactly what they want and safely. Everyday kit then others wouldn't get out of bed to open the door.
With online retailers delivering everything for free then the expectation from the buying public is so should everyone else. Private sales is not a business, so no way to clain the costs back.

I've stopped including post on anything over £100. Just too much. Less expensive then I rarely pay insurance if I do include post as its a fiver a time and a claim takes several hours paper work. Rare for something to go amiss.

Anyhow tomorrow I'm meeting half way on a rifle sell. Safer that way. Its a hobby, goes with the territory.

Would agree !
It all depends on the price and value of the item being sold obviously but I try and do Face to Face whenever possible especially if its a gun. I make some allowance for this when I'm considering what to pay for the particular item.

There are limitations of course but rightly or wrongly the "drive" so to speak is all part of the experience of buying a new piece of kit to me....and I've done some real Howlers in my time !

[Dodger21]

It’s down to the buyer if he/she wants to accept the riskbut the only justification I could see, is with a pressure cylinder involved orthe insurance by Parcel Force is insufficient and the buyer wants it posted andis not willing to pay the extra for RFD transfer.

[Riggs]

Seeing this quite a lot now on Sales threads...

Who the hell would sign up to this arrangement?...not me for sure.
I bet the seller wouldn't expect to buy hundreds of pounds worth of gear to be posted to THEM at their risk

Theres even ad there now for a pistol being offered in this way despite RMSD insurance being available to cover the full cost!

I know it gets difficult with air rifles over £100 - but it's the sellers risk, if you don't want the risk then don't sell it that way.

It just seems greedy on the the part of the seller who doesn't want to share selling costs with RFD transfer which avoids the risk to both parties.

I'm guessing that's my ad your referring to.
I decided to put 'at buyers risk' in the ad for no reason other than I don't completely trust RM/couriers and I would much prefer a f2f deal, that's just how I like to sell things. It doesn't mean it's on the buyer if something goes wrong, It means they risk not getting the item they want rather than do a f2f deal which is something I wouldn't do.(I have traveled for hours to collect rather than risk posting)
Maybe it's the wrong wording but if your willing to spend £450 on a posted item that's quite rare and hard to replace, regardless of wether or not it's insured you want it to turn up in pefect condition. Obviously I would never send something of that value uninsured so what I mean by 'at buyers risk' is, as a buyer if you would rather risk it being damaged or not recieving the item over doing a f2f deal it's 'at your risk'. The buyer would obviously get their money back and I would be compensated, but no-one gets the pistol.

RFD transfer is not something I have considered, but to be honest I would rather someone turn up, have a shoot with the pistol, hand over the money and we are both happy. Nothing greedy or untrustworthy about it.

[robs5230]

I'm guessing that's my ad your referring to.
I decided to put 'at buyers risk' in the ad for no reason other than I don't completely trust RM/couriers and I would much prefer a f2f deal, that's just how I like to sell things. It doesn't mean it's on the buyer if something goes wrong, It means they risk not getting the item they want rather than do a f2f deal which is something I wouldn't do.(I have traveled for hours to collect rather than risk posting)
Maybe it's the wrong wording but if your willing to spend £450 on a posted item that's quite rare and hard to replace, regardless of wether or not it's insured you want it to turn up in pefect condition. Obviously I would never send something of that value uninsured so what I mean by 'at buyers risk' is, as a buyer if you would rather risk it being damaged or not recieving the item over doing a f2f deal it's 'at your risk'. The buyer would obviously get their money back and I would be compensated, but no-one gets the pistol.

RFD transfer is not something I have considered, but to be honest I would rather someone turn up, have a shoot with the pistol, hand over the money and we are both happy. Nothing greedy or untrustworthy about it.

It may be my ad too. I sold a rifle earlier this year, a PCP, the buyer insisted it being posted PF 48 and I agreed to do this as long as he accepted any risk which he did in writing. I made the issue very clear of pressurised cylinders which he was well aware of. So my opinion was it was at his risk as I had it in writing that he understood and bore responsibility for the risk. The rifle was sent empty of air. The pressurised cylinder issue isn't a legal one but the rules of the carrier.

[Arthur John Smithsplease]

It's perfectly acceptable as far as I am concerned.

Generally the seller who specifies this would prefer face to face. Let's face it, we all would.

Yes he can post a rifle with one of the main carriers , but the insurance cover is sometimes laughable.

Remember you are not buying from a retailer, who will have special insurance. You are buying from an individual.

If he accepts your money and the gun disappears, he has to refund your money and has lost the gun.

In the Third World theft in the postal service is widespread.

Britain may still be a developed country but we have been importing the Third World for decades. And typical Third World crime is on the increase. Just look at the newspapers.

Even pedigree dogs and cats are being stolen these days. This is a common crime in the Third World, but was almost unknown in the UK until recently.

[Airsporter1st]

It's only put by those who've read it and thought it sounded good. Under UK law it is the responsibility of the seller until it is recieved by the buyer. If they don't know that I don't trust them to have looked after the gun properly, so it's a self-solving issue.

I normally agree with you, but I'm having trouble with your assertion that ignorance of UK law of commerce indicates that someone does not look after their guns properly. Seems a big jump to me.

[harvey_s]

I'm guessing that's my ad your referring to.
I decided to put 'at buyers risk' in the ad for no reason other than I don't completely trust RM/couriers and I would much prefer a f2f deal, that's just how I like to sell things. It doesn't mean it's on the buyer if something goes wrong, It means they risk not getting the item they want rather than do a f2f deal which is something I wouldn't do.(I have traveled for hours to collect rather than risk posting)
Maybe it's the wrong wording but if your willing to spend £450 on a posted item that's quite rare and hard to replace, regardless of wether or not it's insured you want it to turn up in pefect condition. Obviously I would never send something of that value uninsured so what I mean by 'at buyers risk' is, as a buyer if you would rather risk it being damaged or not recieving the item over doing a f2f deal it's 'at your risk'. The buyer would obviously get their money back and I would be compensated, but no-one gets the pistol.

RFD transfer is not something I have considered, but to be honest I would rather someone turn up, have a shoot with the pistol, hand over the money and we are both happy. Nothing greedy or untrustworthy about it.

Your ad was what prompted the thread - but it wasn't the first by a long chalk...

However, your explanation of what you meant is fair enough and perhaps not would normally be be meant by "posted at buyer's risk" and you should reword your ad as maybe that's why you haven't sold it yet?

F2F deals are by far the best - but it can be expensive for the buyer in time and fuel.
I once drove from Norwich to Bridgend in Wales for a target pistol - the price made it worthwhile and I got security of knowing exactly what I bought...but it still was pretty much was a day's travelling - OK for me as I don't mind driving...but I'm in a minority, most won't consider this a practical option.
That's part of the problem though as unless you're prepared to wait - the price has to keep dropping to expand the range where a F2F deal becomes worthwhile. (Which is unfortunate if like me you live in the arse end of the country...no one exactly travels past Norwich unless you're going on holiday to Yarmouth or the broads!)

[Riggs]

Your ad was what prompted the thread - but it wasn't the first by a long chalk...

However, your explanation of what you meant is fair enough and perhaps not would normally be be meant by "posted at buyer's risk" and you should reword your ad as maybe that's why you haven't sold it yet?

F2F deals are by far the best - but it can be expensive for the buyer in time and fuel.
I once drove from Norwich to Bridgend in Wales for a target pistol - the price made it worthwhile and I got security of knowing exactly what I bought...but it still was pretty much was a day's travelling - OK for me as I don't mind driving...but I'm in a minority, most won't consider this a practical option.
That's part of the problem though as unless you're prepared to wait - the price has to keep dropping to expand the range where a F2F deal becomes worthwhile.

I will take it on board and amend my sale ad

[Gareth W-B]

I normally agree with you, but I'm having trouble with your assertion that ignorance of UK law of commerce indicates that someone does not look after their guns properly. Seems a big jump to me.

yep ^^^^^ wot he said.

[tinbum]

I normally agree with you, but I'm having trouble with your assertion that ignorance of UK law of commerce indicates that someone does not look after their guns properly. Seems a big jump to me.

Ok, fair point. How about someone with the attitude of "I'll post it, but if I do a terrible job and it arrives smashed to bits its your fault for asking me to post it." Isn't the kind of person you'd want to buy a gun from?

I prefer fave to face as most of us do, but when I do post, the criteria for packing is "will it survive being thrown down the stairs?"

[robs5230]

Ok, fair point. How about someone with the attitude of "I'll post it, but if I do a terrible job and it arrives smashed to bits its your fault for asking me to post it." Isn't the kind of person you'd want to buy a gun from?

I prefer fave to face as most of us do, but when I do post, the criteria for packing is "will it survive being thrown down the stairs?"

I certainly didn't mean that when I posted mine as "at buyers risk". My reference was to the risk of sending a pre charged. Not the risk of damage in transit.
I just sent an ultra action to Mr Bowkett with the packaging weighing more than the action itself. It would survive a pile up, let alone any shoddy handling by PF