Did any other manufactures rival the BSA Prewar Standard?

[Geezer]

1. Pumper v springer for hunting. We kind of did that here in the UK from 1975-85, when there was a group of shooters and writers who favoured the pumper. But the market said quality springer.

2. However, that result may have been slanted by the arrival of FT in 1981, where the easier cocking per shot of the springer was a huge advantage.

3. But the best springers (HW, FWB) were made to a higher standard and had much better triggers than the typical Sharp/Sheridan/Crosman/Benji pumper. Which also appeals for sporting use.

4. The later British pumpers (Daystate, Titan, Dragon) were competitive in the hunting field with the best springers, just expensive, less wieldy, and (Dragon) less reliable.

5. So if I compare my 1980s Sheridan to its springer competition, it loses. Beyond the effort and slowness of pumping, it has a poor trigger, worse sights (even with a Williams peep), and is a bugger to scope. It is still a nice gun, though. Ditto my Crosmans (of which the 2200s are clearly built down to a price and do not compare in pride of ownership in any way to a good UK/German springer of the same vintage).

6. But if it had a good trigger and decent scope mounting, my Sheridan would be competitive for a lot of pest control type shooting. Just slower between shots. Not better, just different - principally lighter and handier.

7. And this is surely what led to Beeman and ARH in the 70s and 80s making good business out of selling European springers in the US. Because they were a bit better.

8. Back on topic. I imagine the Japanese BSA copies were great. Were they?

[cinedux]

the weight of one's weapon(for ME anyhow;-)). Rather excluding all the heavy springers that were grand shooters on the range. My pick for a field gun in days of yore would have been a Sharp Innova..22,quick to the shoulder,a very flat trajectory and deadly out to forty yards. The Innova(at $78NZ) was a 'best buy' at the time.Fitted with a snazzy -made silencer it was the complete package.Peepsight,and light as a feather. Of course,just a personal preference. NZ's Innova's were unmodified giving as much power as possible. Pumping was a real chore after 4-5 strokes but with practice and effort the 900fps could be topped(and-in .177 over the thou). Think I'll get a bracket fitted to my Zimmer frame.....

[45flint]

To me it will be more fun to revisit the 1920-30's and relive William Mcleans and Crosman's early vision for a rifle that could compete against the BSA springer that he probably owned and liked. Kind of reliving history in my backyard. Seems purer back then, no scopes, no scuba tanks, etc. Maybe why I like vintage guns!? My first vintage collection is 1800's blackpowder arms, but backyard shooting is problematic. Lol

[DT Fletcher]

To me it will be more fun to revisit the 1920-30's and relive William Mcleans and Crosman's early vision for a rifle that could compete against the BSA springer that he probably owned and liked. Kind of reliving history in my backyard. Seems purer back then, no scopes, no scuba tanks, etc. Maybe why I like vintage guns!? My first vintage collection is 1800's blackpowder arms, but backyard shooting is problematic. Lol

If you really want to travel back in time, get yourself a nice working Benjamin model E, F, or G. Even cooler, but hard to find, is the Benjamin "Automatic" model. I repaired an "automatic" for a guy (who was blind and as a hobby worked on guns - the "automatic" proved to be beyond him, however) and shooting that thing was simply a wonder to behold.

Regarding shooting: BSA vs Crosman, maybe we could hold a vintage air rifle "postal" match here on the forum.

[isobar]

If you really want to travel back in time, get yourself a nice working Benjamin model E, F, or G. Even cooler, but hard to find, is the Benjamin "Automatic" model. I repaired an "automatic" for a guy (who was blind and as a hobby worked on guns - the "automatic" proved to be beyond him, however) and shooting that thing was simply a wonder to behold.

Regarding shooting: BSA vs Crosman, maybe we could hold a vintage air rifle "postal" match here on the forum.

like the idea of a postal match,it would be fun; almost a spectator sport.set it at about 20yds so the groups open up a bit.BSA vs Crosman unofficial world champs.

[45flint]

like the idea of a postal match,it would be fun; almost a spectator sport.set it at about 20yds so the groups open up a bit.BSA vs Crosman unofficial world champs.

I had to lookup what a postal match was? Lol. Afraid at my age and maybe some of yours it would be more of a test of who has the best old eyes. Though the BSA is one of the most eye friendly open sights, the back sight is still a bit blurry. The Crosman peep is much easier. I think someone needs to send me one of those nice old peep sights for my BSA to make it fair?

[isobar]

I had to lookup what a postal match was? Lol. Afraid at my age and maybe some of yours it would be more of a test of who has the best old eyes. Though the BSA is one of the most eye friendly open sights, the back sight is still a bit blurry. The Crosman peep is much easier. I think someone needs to send me one of those nice old peep sights for my BSA to make it fair?

nice try flint,would be nice with a suitable peep sight though.i think my example was once fitted with something like a no.8 folding sight fitted to the wrist and folding back into a recess on the comb,long since gone,apparently not that comfy and cramping the hand fitted in that position.someone has made a very neat infill in the stock where it was once fitted,you can hardly see the join on a good day! ATB

[Phil Russell]

Rival to the BSA Standard? What about the Haenel VIE. At first glance you could be forgiven for thinking the Haenel was actually a BSA, until you look closer and notice the name. There don't seem to be many VIE models around but it is a good sturdy rifle.
My notes say, key info: 'Haenel, Suhl, Germany produced the Model VI E (6E) in the 1930`s pre WW2. These .22 calibre, underlever, Air rifles were designed from a B.S.A pattern. It has a 19 1/2 rifled barrel with a crisp clean bore and measures 46” overall. It has adjustable rear sight and blade foresight.

Cheers, Phil

[45flint]

Here is the one to get that would beat the BSA, a repeater, saw it in the Vintage Gallery:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/68145...tailed+pics%29

[micky2]

Here is the one to get that would beat the BSA, a repeater, saw it in the Vintage Gallery:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/68145...tailed+pics%29

l have one of those, and the Junior model V repeter as well. if l remember right BSA did experment with repeters but never put them into production.

[draitzer]

Since the original question was specifically limited to quarter-stocked underlever guns, the field for comparison is limited. Several Haenel and Diana BSA 'clones' would qualify, plus a few from Asia (only one of these I've seen in the flesh was a somewhat crudely finished example from India). If the restriction on stock style were relaxed, I'd propose the Diana 58 as the most elegant pre-WWII underlever of all.

Don R.

[Telephonepete]

round about 1960 just after i started shooting. when one got the"serious" gun it had to be a bsa airsporter the one with screw back sight and no scope rails, or a webley mark 3. the diana was considered to be very second best as also was the meteor. i went thw mark 3 .22 route all my mates had .22 airsporters except one who had a .177 club. (lovely gun). pete