Did any other manufactures rival the BSA Prewar Standard?

[DT Fletcher]

Wow, that kind of statement should get the juices flowing for a William McLean - Lincoln Jeffries shoot off. But looking at my 1923 BSA I have an adjustable trigger? Seems the "every possible way" may be a little strong?

Crosman 101 doesn't need no stinkin' adjustable trigger. It just works like an airgun should.

[ccdjg]

Crosman 101 doesn't need no stinkin' adjustable trigger. It just works like an airgun should.

Of course, if you don’t mind pumping away like a Dervish on the Crosman, while the BSA meanwhile is getting off the same power shot with a single smooth stroke (and a self-opening loading port to boot), then I guess you might imagine the Crosman could be the better gun.

[DT Fletcher]

Of course, if you don’t mind pumping away like a Dervish on the Crosman, while the BSA meanwhile is getting off the same power shot with a single smooth stroke (and a self-opening loading port to boot), then I guess you might imagine the Crosman could be the better gun.

There you go again. Everyone understands that the BSA only takes a single stroke, but, it's also a damn heavy spring that jumps when shot. If you're a lazy shooter and don't care about anything else but the number of strokes, then the BSA is ideal. It's just not a true hunting weapon like the Crosman. Period.

[Lakey]

There you go again. Everyone understands that the BSA only takes a single stroke, but, it's also a damn heavy spring that jumps when shot. If you're a lazy shooter and don't care about anything else but the number of strokes, then the BSA is ideal. It's just not a true hunting weapon like the Crosman. Period.

I think you will find that a lot of the old BSA's gave a good account of themselves when it came to putting meat on the table. Especially during both world wars, when firearms ammunition was almost impossible to get, a wide variety of projectiles where cobbled together to keep the BSA's in action. Many Rabbits, Pigeons, Rooks, Pheasants etc etc must have fallen foul of these guns in genuine times of need, to supplement the meager food rations. If only they could tell the story of their individual history and previous ownership. What a story each gun would tell.......

Lakey

[Garvin]

There you go again. Everyone understands that the BSA only takes a single stroke, but, it's also a damn heavy spring that jumps when shot. If you're a lazy shooter and don't care about anything else but the number of strokes, then the BSA is ideal. It's just not a true hunting weapon like the Crosman. Period.

Personally I think pump-ups are inherently flawed as hunting tools. Much though I enjoyed the recoilessness of my Crosmans, back in the days when I hunted I chose to take a single-stroke-cocking springer every time.

But I'd love to have a Crosman 101 in my collection.

[Josie & John]

Personally I think pump-ups are inherently flawed as hunting tools. Much though I enjoyed the recoilessness of my Crosmans, back in the days when I hunted I chose to take a single-stroke-cocking springer every time.

.

Just imagine two shooters in the field. One armed with a Crosman and the other with a BSA. Quarry is sighted and the BSA shooter quietly cocks and loads his piece. Meanwhile the Crosman shooter says "Wait, I need to charge my rifle". Frantic movement follows as the Crosman goes clack, clack, clack, then a pellet is fumbled into the piece. The BSA shooter could have got a couple of shots off in the time the Crosman is prepared but sportingly waits for his pal to prepare. The noise and time elapsed results in the quarry disappearing from view and both shooters carry on empty handed...

The BSA was not just a hunting arm and was the air rifle to use for target shooting as bell and match shooters will attest to. A single cocking stroke for target shooting is also to be prefered in this discipline too as a 30 shot course of fire requires the piece to be cocked 30 times. Whereas a multi pump has to be cocked many times that, resulting in shooter fatigue, especially towards the end of that course, when the rifle has already been cocked, perhaps over 100 times.

John

[harry mac]

Just imagine two shooters in the field. One armed with a Crosman and the other with a BSA. Quarry is sighted and the BSA shooter quietly cocks and loads his piece. Meanwhile the Crosman shooter says "Wait, I need to charge my rifle". Frantic movement follows as the Crosman goes clack, clack, clack, then a pellet is fumbled into the piece. The BSA shooter could have got a couple of shots off in the time the Crosman is prepared but sportingly waits for his pal to prepare. The noise and time elapsed results in the quarry disappearing from view and both shooters carry on empty handed...

The BSA was not just a hunting arm and was the air rifle to use for target shooting as bell and match shooters will attest to. A single cocking stroke for target shooting is also to be prefered in this discipline too as a 30 shot course of fire requires the piece to be cocked 30 times. Whereas a multi pump has to be cocked many times that, resulting in shooter fatigue, especially towards the end of that course, when the rifle has already been cocked, perhaps over 100 times.

John

However, in real life, the Crosman owner would have pumped his rifle long before any quarry was sighted, and with the greater power of the pump up would have been able to shoot it at a longer range. Always assuming the Crosman was indeed as powerful as they were supposed to be (never shot a Crosman of this vintage so I don't know).
The rifles were different animals with different perceived purposes, saying "mines better than yours" is comparing apples with oranges.
But it never hurts to rib the Yanks a bit.

[Mzee]

I love to read objective discussions like this.
Glyn

[45flint]

Just imagine two shooters in the field. One armed with a Crosman and the other with a BSA. Quarry is sighted and the BSA shooter quietly cocks and loads his piece. Meanwhile the Crosman shooter says "Wait, I need to charge my rifle". Frantic movement follows as the Crosman goes clack, clack, clack, then a pellet is fumbled into the piece. The BSA shooter could have got a couple of shots off in the time the Crosman is prepared but sportingly waits for his pal to prepare. The noise and time elapsed results in the quarry disappearing from view and both shooters carry on empty handed...

The BSA was not just a hunting arm and was the air rifle to use for target shooting as bell and match shooters will attest to. A single cocking stroke for target shooting is also to be prefered in this discipline too as a 30 shot course of fire requires the piece to be cocked 30 times. Whereas a multi pump has to be cocked many times that, resulting in shooter fatigue, especially towards the end of that course, when the rifle has already been cocked, perhaps over 100 times.

John

You forget one of the inherent advantages of the Crosman pneumatic is that it can be precharged before going into the field. While a spring will fatigue if left cocked for hours, this is not the case for a pneumatic. The springer must be cocked while the quarry is sighted. Yes a one shot kill is imperative but the lack of recoil makes the pneumatic inherently easier for the typical shooter to shoot accurately(the most important element to airgun hunting).

That being said I think you need to go back to the 1920s and get both guns and give it a go. Given I have very good examples of both guns that is what I will do in my backyard in the coming weeks. Given both guns were amazingly successful I have to believe there is merit to each. But lets do a side by side comparison, should be fun! Not sure Ohio is neutral ground for this but my love for German and British blued steeled guns should help give both sides a fair appraisal.

[DT Fletcher]

Back to the original question for a moment: wasn't it the intent of the Greener Air Rifle to be a superior BSA?

[45flint]

Back to the original question for a moment: wasn't it the intent of the Greener Air Rifle to be a superior BSA?

I have seen it in books but never for sale? It did have a long run time, 1930s - 1960? That may be the Greener company dates, from Vintage Airgun Gallery looks like less than 1000 were made. Finish work seems a little ruffer than the BSA on the examples pictured there? But interesting Cam action?

[ccdjg]

You forget one of the inherent advantages of the Crosman pneumatic is that it can be precharged before going into the field. While a spring will fatigue if left cocked for hours, this is not the case for a pneumatic. The springer must be cocked while the quarry is sighted.

Although it goes against all one’s basic instincts, the idea that leaving a springer cocked for several hours seriously affects it power is something of a myth. For example, impartial tests on four well known commercial springs by Tom Gaylord showed that they lost only 3-7% of their strength after leaving fully cocked for one month. https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006...g-last-part-2/

Of course, leaving a springer cocked unnecessarily is not something to be recommended purely on safety grounds, but I suppose for hunting it would be OK.

[Lakey]

Back to the original question for a moment: wasn't it the intent of the Greener Air Rifle to be a superior BSA?

The Greener was and is a lovely rifle, with a unique way of locking the barrel/seating the pellet with its cam action, however let production numbers speak for themselves here, with only around 1200 greeners estimated, it was never going to be a serious contender for BSA's crown.

[45flint]

Although it goes against all one’s basic instincts, the idea that leaving a springer cocked for several hours seriously affects it power is something of a myth. For example, impartial tests on four well known commercial springs by Tom Gaylord showed that they lost only 3-7% of their strength after leaving fully cocked for one month. https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006...g-last-part-2/

Of course, leaving a springer cocked unnecessarily is not something to be recommended purely on safety grounds, but I suppose for hunting it would be OK.

I think you are correct but in the field how many spring gun owners will sit with it cocked for hours waiting on a squirrel to present a shot? I certainly wouldn't and I doubt anyone here would. Especially true on a gun made in the 1920-30s. So though your theory is probably correct unless it is used in the field kind of becomes a moot point? I have left my Crosman charged on my cabin porch waiting for a squirrel to come by.

[smallholder1]

The answer is no........the bsa standard in .22 still takes some beating now