The Challenger Arms Corporation Plainsman (pneumatic) air pistol...

[micky2]

Hi Jimmie. another great writeup, i look forward to your next review on the Co2 pistols as l have 2 of them, one of which needs a front seal. funny but l bought both of them from arms fairs over here in the UK within weeks of each other.
ATB,
Mick.

[JimmieDee]

Hi Jimmie. another great writeup, i look forward to your next review on the Co2 pistols as l have 2 of them, one of which needs a front seal. funny but l bought both of them from arms fairs over here in the UK within weeks of each other.
ATB,
Mick.

Writing it as I speak/type! Front seal.... on the CO2 chamber cap? It's just an o-ring I believe. Would you like me to measure it up for you?

All the best,
Jimmie

[DT Fletcher]

"It appears that the rifle might also have been designed to be used with a CO2 bulk fill cylinder too although I am unable to physically verify this."

The bulk-fill versions of the Plainsman rifles do exist but are rare. I have one of the shotguns setup for bulk fill. These came late in the life of Plainsman, after the move to Pennsylvania, as mentioned.

Although there is no real way of verifying it, I believe that my Goodenow Plainsman bulk-fill CO2 shotgun, with only a single known example, to be one of the rarest of all vintage American airguns.

"The barrel is finely rifled steel and was available in .177 as well as .22 caliber's...."

I have been told by US Plainsman expert that no example of the .177 pneumatic pistol has ever been found.

"There are various rumours of what happened between the closure of Challenger Arms Corporation and the rebirth of the Plainsman by the Goodenow Manufacturing Corporation in 1954."

Yes. I entirely agree, there is no reliable information on the Goodenow operation. One interesting piece of information discovered by Larry Hannusch and confirmed from mine and other's experience is that the Goodenow guns invariably had walnut stocks.

To add an interesting side story, early on in my collecting of vintage airguns, I picked up a bulk-fill CO2 Plainsman rifle and called Larry H. about it. He was adamant that no such Plainsman model was known to exist. Larry did some remarkable investigative work on Plainsman/Apache so it was hard to doubt his word, but, he was indeed wrong. What had happened is that Larry's knowledge came exclusively from his sources in Los Angeles. The bulk-fill CO2 models didn't come about until Goodenow which Larry had and has nothing on.

Note: the Plainsman CO2 rifles tended to badly rust with use, so, almost certainly many of those made eventually found their way to the dump because of the rusted condition. The single shot described to Larry was covered in rust. The shotgun I have looks likes it has never fired a shot, so, it's remarkably clean.

[JimmieDee]

Many thanks for the information DT! If you don’t mind I will incorporate it into the article!

I was aware that Fogel had thought about using bulk fill CO2 and it appears he may have developed a prototype at least according to that article in Science & Mechanics with actual photograph of the airgun. According to Fogel, via Larry, they never actually produced one. So it was perhaps Goodenow that added the bulk fill option.

Are you convinced your air shotgun is Goodenow and not maybe a prototype Fogel manufactured?

Interesting no on the .177. I haven’t seen one either but then again, they’re all so rare to begin with!

[DT Fletcher]

Many thanks for the information DT! If you don’t mind I will incorporate it into the article!

I was aware that Fogel had thought about using bulk fill CO2 and it appears he may have developed a prototype at least according to that article in Science & Mechanics with actual photograph of the airgun. According to Fogel, via Larry, they never actually produced one. So it was perhaps Goodenow that added the bulk fill option.

Are you convinced your air shotgun is Goodenow and not maybe a prototype Fogel manufactured?

Interesting no on the .177. I haven’t seen one either but then again, they’re all so rare to begin with!

My Plainsman bulk CO2 shotgun has a walnut stock, like all Goodenow production (per Larry,) so, there is really little question that it's a Goodenow gun. I believe what Fogel told Larry that Plainsman (California) never produced the bulk fill option. That leaves it up to Goodenow to have produced them.

However, as of this point, nobody has ever found any original Goodenow literature of any sort to back up anything. There is one small magazine ad but that's the full extent of it, as far as I've ever seen. My experience has been that without original literature of the company it's very hard to produce a precise history. When interviewing people for my Crosman books, I heard all sorts of stories that didn't turn out to be exactly true.

[JimmieDee]

My Plainsman bulk CO2 shotgun has a walnut stock, like all Goodenow production (per Larry,) so, there is really little question that it's a Goodenow gun. I believe what Fogel told Larry that Plainsman (California) never produced the bulk fill option. That leaves it up to Goodenow to have produced them.

However, as of this point, nobody has ever found any original Goodenow literature of any sort to back up anything. There is one small magazine ad but that's the full extent of it, as far as I've ever seen. My experience has been that without original literature of the company it's very hard to produce a precise history. When interviewing people for my Crosman books, I heard all sorts of stories that didn't turn out to be exactly true.

Many thanks Dean.

[45flint]

"It appears that the rifle might also have been designed to be used with a CO2 bulk fill cylinder too although I am unable to physically verify this."

The bulk-fill versions of the Plainsman rifles do exist but are rare. I have one of the shotguns setup for bulk fill. These came late in the life of Plainsman, after the move to Pennsylvania, as mentioned.

Although there is no real way of verifying it, I believe that my Goodenow Plainsman bulk-fill CO2 shotgun, with only a single known example, to be one of the rarest of all vintage American airguns.

"The barrel is finely rifled steel and was available in .177 as well as .22 caliber's...."

I have been told by US Plainsman expert that no example of the .177 pneumatic pistol has ever been found.

"There are various rumours of what happened between the closure of Challenger Arms Corporation and the rebirth of the Plainsman by the Goodenow Manufacturing Corporation in 1954."

Yes. I entirely agree, there is no reliable information on the Goodenow operation. One interesting piece of information discovered by Larry Hannusch and confirmed from mine and other's experience is that the Goodenow guns invariably had walnut stocks.

To add an interesting side story, early on in my collecting of vintage airguns, I picked up a bulk-fill CO2 Plainsman rifle and called Larry H. about it. He was adamant that no such Plainsman model was known to exist. Larry did some remarkable investigative work on Plainsman/Apache so it was hard to doubt his word, but, he was indeed wrong. What had happened is that Larry's knowledge came exclusively from his sources in Los Angeles. The bulk-fill CO2 models didn't come about until Goodenow which Larry had and has nothing on.

Note: the Plainsman CO2 rifles tended to badly rust with use, so, almost certainly many of those made eventually found their way to the dump because of the rusted condition. The single shot described to Larry was covered in rust. The shotgun I have looks likes it has never fired a shot, so, it's remarkably clean.

https://i.imgur.com/FqK286l.jpg

I was negotiating buying a Plainsman pneumatic 22 with a guy and he said he already sold the one he had in .177. Sent this pic, only one he sent. I assumed at the time it was the pneumatic? Don’t know if you can tell if it’s Pneumatic from this pic?

[Benelli B76]

https://i.imgur.com/FqK286l.jpg

I was negotiating buying a Plainsman pneumatic 22 with a guy and he said he already sold the one he had in .177. Sent this pic, only one he sent. I assumed at the time it was the pneumatic? Don’t know if you can tell if it’s Pneumatic from this pic?

Looks like the rear of the CO2 pistol. This is one I sold...



Baz

[JimmieDee]

https://i.imgur.com/FqK286l.jpg

I was negotiating buying a Plainsman pneumatic 22 with a guy and he said he already sold the one he had in .177. Sent this pic, only one he sent. I assumed at the time it was the pneumatic? Don’t know if you can tell if it’s Pneumatic from this pic?

I'm pretty sure that's a CO2 model. The giveaway for me is the bolt rest just in front of the breech. It isn't present on the pneumatic. Until I migrate the CO2 article across to my website, please refer to this photo from my Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/jimmi...9485942815946/

Oh and thanks for sharing!

All the best,
Jimmie

[DT Fletcher]

https://i.imgur.com/FqK286l.jpg

I was negotiating buying a Plainsman pneumatic 22 with a guy and he said he already sold the one he had in .177. Sent this pic, only one he sent. I assumed at the time it was the pneumatic? Don’t know if you can tell if it’s Pneumatic from this pic?

With our "new" eyes regarding the Plainsman, it's pretty clear that this is a pneumatic, because it does not have the fancy POWER CONTROL adjustable cocking hammer.

[JimmieDee]

With our "new" eyes regarding the Plainsman, it's pretty clear that this is a pneumatic, because it does not have the fancy POWER CONTROL adjustable cocking hammer.

It could be either. I have further researched both the pneumatic and the CO2 variant and the pneumatic is also seen with the pellet loading shelf in front of the breech. In this example, it is possible that the pistol is cocked and only the rod is visible. Otherwise I would expect to see the knob at the end.

All the best,
Jimmie

[DT Fletcher]

It could be either. I have further researched both the pneumatic and the CO2 variant and the pneumatic is also seen with the pellet loading shelf in front of the breech. In this example, it is possible that the pistol is cocked and only the rod is visible. Otherwise I would expect to see the knob at the end.

All the best,
Jimmie

Well, it sure looks like the pneumatic hammer rod, the CO2 hammer has a difference appearance.

It should be added: if this is what you say, then it is the rarest of all the rare, a .177 caliber CO2 pistol, a model never mentioned anywhere in the literature.

[micky2]

Writing it as I speak/type! Front seal.... on the CO2 chamber cap? It's just an o-ring I believe. Would you like me to measure it up for you?

All the best,
Jimmie

Hi Jimmie yes please if you don't mind.
ATB,
Mick.

[JimmieDee]

Hi Jimmie yes please if you don't mind.
ATB,
Mick.

Mick,

A 16mm x 2.5mm (R11 size) o-ring will fit as I have just measured up and put one in mine. I can pop a few in the post if you like.

All the best,
Jimmie

[Benelli B76]

Mick,

A 16mm x 2.5mm (R11 size) o-ring will fit as I have just measured up and put one in mine. I can pop a few in the post if you like.

All the best,
Jimmie

Did you find that the Nitrile and Viton rubber ones swell up from absorbing CO2 and you need to leave them quite a while before they return to a size where you can refit the cap ? I had to order a load of special ones for my C02 Plainsman.

Baz