JM No.4 Gem - 9mm dart gallery gun

[DCL_dave]

Just thought you chaps might like a gander at a JM No4 gallery gun in 9mm...there can not be too many around? (the bore is actually nearer 11/32" or 8.7mm)

I made the dart today, it weighs 40.5 grains and rockets along at a blistering 58.5fps for an energy .31 ftlbs yes, that's right...1/3 of a foot/pound

The last picture nshows the 9mm dart with a .177, .22 and .25 for comparison.

I can't figure these links out?... one minute they work then they don't! WTF?

They seem to work from the Gem forum link..

http://www.network54.com/Forum/661795/message/1507137722/Jean+Marck+No.4+Gallery+gun+in+9mm

[magicesperanto]

Interesting, I've certainly never seen one before.

Could you explain why the difference in finish between action and barrel please?

[Garvin]

Just thought you chaps might like a gander at a JM No4 gallery gun in 9mm...there can not be too many around? (the bore is actually nearer 11/32" or 8.7mm)

I made the dart today, it weighs 40.5 grains and rockets along at a blistering 58.5fps for an energy .31 ftlbs yes, that's right...1/3 of a foot/pound

The last picture nshows the 9mm dart with a .177, .22 and .25 for comparison.

http://imageupload.co.uk/image/Dz5s

http://imageupload.co.uk/image/Dz5x

http://imageupload.co.uk/image/Dz5u

Wow, what a monster, Dave.

Be almost as quick to deliver it to the target on foot.

Never heard of these guns. Must be a rarity?

[DCL_dave]

Interesting, I've certainly never seen one before.

Could you explain why the difference in finish between action and barrel please?

I think these were mostly made for use at fairgrounds, shooting galleries and such like. The two-tone nickel and blue finish was common on Gem patterns and other types of airguns from 1890's up the WW1 - just a fashion I guess? ..worth noting that that gun has been refinished sometime in the past, the finish you see is authentic for the type but not original.

Pictured with the gun is a .22 rifled liner that was in the gun when I got it from a Holt's auction a while back, I do not think it is original either...

[DCL_dave]

Wow, what a monster, Dave.

Be almost as quick to deliver it to the target on foot.

Never heard of these guns. Must be a rarity?

Yep, got to be rare as rare thing!

The open sight arrangment is optimistic to say the least! ...my shed is 8m long and 8' high...not sure I have enough clearance for the trajectory!

[magicesperanto]

Thanks Dave, I never knew two-tone guns were once in vogue.

[Airsporterman]

I just wish I could view the pictures - just comes up with internal server error or somesuch.

I have a soft spot for Gems - my very first air rifle when I was 8 or so - got it for a swap and my Dad fixed it so it would fire (he had to make a new trigger guard/spring compressor part) - many a happy hour spent shooting my plastic toy soldiers down in the back garden, using the same pellets retrieved from the dirt if they could be refired!
Mine was two tone - of rust!

Yours sounds very interesting

ASM

[DCL_dave]

I just wish I could view the pictures - just comes up with internal server error or somesuch.

I have a soft spot for Gems - my very first air rifle when I was 8 or so - got it for a swap and my Dad fixed it so it would fire (he had to make a new trigger guard/spring compressor part) - many a happy hour spent shooting my plastic toy soldiers down in the back garden, using the same pellets retrieved from the dirt if they could be refired!
Mine was two tone - of rust!

Yours sounds very interesting

ASM

Sorry about that...they were working yesterday? ...please try the link on the gem forum

http://www.network54.com/Forum/66179...ery+gun+in+9mm

[DAVALI]

What does it go like using the .22 tube?, I have a gem, number 6112 (E Gaggenau) which measures 7mm bore, I made a punch and die set to modify .25 Bisley pest control pellets and get just over 6ft/pds and can get a 2" CtoC group at ten yards, great fun to use beyond that distance as lottery/chance takes its toll!.
I also modified a pistol barrel to fit in the chamber but results were very disappointing.
Note, most of the Gems I've come across have being two tone ie Nickel action blued barrel but not in the same condition as yours.
Dave.

[greenwayjames]

I came across a 9mm Gem years ago but that was a combination gun. It could fire a pellet with a removable liner or a 9mm Flobert round with a device in the cylinder side. In the same fashion as the Quackenbush combination guns. A bit of a no no nowadays

[DCL_dave]

What does it go like using the .22 tube?, I have a gem, number 6112 (E Gaggenau) which measures 7mm bore, I made a punch and die set to modify .25 Bisley pest control pellets and get just over 6ft/pds and can get a 2" CtoC group at ten yards, great fun to use beyond that distance as lottery/chance takes its toll!.
I also modified a pistol barrel to fit in the chamber but results were very disappointing.
Note, most of the Gems I've come across have being two tone ie Nickel action blued barrel but not in the same condition as yours.
Dave.

I haven't tested it for power with the .22 liner fitted as I have only recently got it firing (the cocking link pin was missing when i got it as was the breech seal) but it seems about right for the type probably low 3-4 fpe as is usual with these light Gem patterns.

I came across a 9mm Gem years ago but that was a combination gun. It could fire a pellet with a removable liner or a 9mm Flobert round with a device in the cylinder side. In the same fashion as the Quackenbush combination guns. A bit of a no no nowadays

I thought about this as this does have a proof mark of sorts but only on the T bar? -it is stamped in the side of the fixed rear sight V block...but neither the cylinder or the barrel is maked as far as I can see...

Upon studying the catalogues again...this may infact be a No.1 in 8mm because the cal is somewhere
between 8 and 9mm (about 8.6 on my cheap digital caliper) it weighs 1.9 kilos and is 89.5cm long...

I put a better shot of the breech up on the Gem forum.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/66179...7205360/breech

[greenwayjames]

The large diameter of the breech seal could could hint at the fact that the recess might have housed a rimfire firing pin arrangement. A lot of Belgian so called 9mm Floberts had bores that measured .340" - .345"

[DCL_dave]

The large diameter of the breech seal could could hint at the fact that the recess might have housed a rimfire firing pin arrangement. A lot of Belgian so called 9mm Floberts had bores that measured .340" - .345"

Well I don't quite know what to do about this then as it was legally bought as an pre-1939 airgun in an auction from Holts so must have cleared through their system ok? (I do still have the lot sticker so it can be traced) ...is it legal to own then?

Edit: I have arranged to take it into my local gunshop (SportArm in Dorchester) tomorrow morning for them to have a look at it!

The JM catalogues do mention an 8mm air only gun with darts available in that cal (I have owned a few JM Gems in .177 and .25 and the .25 is usually quite a bit bigger that true .25 cal (6.35mm) and nearer 6.5-6.6mm, so I was aware of the variations in the smaller cals.

[greenwayjames]

Its wise to get it checked out just in case but if it isnt chambered for a cartridge and the recess on the cylinder side just contains a breach seal its an airgun. If JM catalogs list an 8mm airgun for firing darts then thats what it is

[Airsporterman]

Sorry about that...they were working yesterday? ...please try the link on the gem forum

http://www.network54.com/Forum/66179...ery+gun+in+9mm

Thanks for that Dave - ah! - that takes me back mate, loved my little Gem - looked very similar to that but had a different breech latch arrangement, nor did it have an alloy butt plate!

Wish I still had it - all the more special because my late Dad fixed it for me!

Awesome size calibre that!

ASM