HW95 shortstroking

[RebornAirgunner]

got one of the tbt full shortstroke/drop in kits for my hw80 and it has transformed the gun completely, just picked up an hw95 .22 powers up and its a bit twangy so im thinking of doing the same with the 95, does it benefit much in the way of shortstroking or would just the drop in kit be enough.

[clarky]

got one of the tbt full shortstroke/drop in kits for my hw80 and it has transformed the gun completely, just picked up an hw95 .22 powers up and its a bit twangy so im thinking of doing the same with the 95, does it benefit much in the way of shortstroking or would just the drop in kit be enough.

It can but takes a bit of a hit in the way of power ....best to just Delrin fit it out.

[TonyL]

The HW95 can easily make in excess of our limit on standard stroke, especially in .22.

So, yes, just a Delrin kit will certainly smooth it out and remove the twang. But, I have briefly shot a few 95s that have the Tbt short stroke kit and the ones I tried shot beautifully with less recoil perceived. Ultimate accuracy / hold sensitivity would have to be properly tested vs standard stroke, but there are quite a few out there who have done this mod and reported excellent results. So I'd say well worth a try and it's easy to go back to standard stroke if later desired.

[clarky]

The HW95 can easily make in excess of our limit on standard stroke, especially in .22.

So, yes, just a Delrin kit will certainly smooth it out and remove the twang. But, I have briefly shot a few 95s that have the Tbt short stroke kit and the ones I tried shot beautifully with less recoil perceived. Ultimate accuracy / hold sensitivity would have to be properly tested vs standard stroke, but there are quite a few out there who have done this mod and reported excellent results. So I'd say well worth a try and it's easy to go back to standard stroke if later desired.

I have also shot both and carried out both mods along with more than a few others...
Both mods give excellent results over a std stock rifle...no arguments there regardless of its make. Delrin especially, just seems to kill twang stone dead and removes that spring gall cocking noise that we are all aware of when loading springers but i could not easily detect the difference of short stroking...either on targets or felt.
Sure, when a full Delrin conversion takes place we get big improvement but when as part of a short stroke conversion its difficult to tell like for like....even if you notice it massively over stock..
On paper short stroking has to be more accurate as shot time is quicker but nobody has ever fully tested the effects of of the loss of velocity it brings across the first 40 yds....pellet speed/drop etc...
Ive known more than a few switch back from short stroking.
My own results concluded a beautifully shooting 610 fps (typical heavy hunting Domes) with a Delrin kit and virtually undetectable sweeter shooting 570 fps short stroked .....at least with the 95.....but i have never deeply investigated the effects of slightly slower speeds across 30 or 40 yds....drop/wind effects etc..versus the very slight reduction potentially in lock time and felt recoil..
Its something i might test and keep you posted .


Other guns can react to greater or lesser extents with short stroking.
Some should not be....the HW80 must be.
I think the 80 carries it so well owing to its massive internal cylinder dimensions, meaning you can input the most sweetist of tuning formula for it but still easily managing 12 ftlbs from a gun which could easily exceed 20ftlbs potentially ...so it makes real sense here.
Most other springers as natural sub 12 ftlb guns are hit and miss with stroking meddling.

[tinbum]

The 95 has a power difference spread of +/- 0.5 ft/lb with an extension, the norm is for very little change as the extra preload nicely balances the lost swept volume. The piston then travels faster over a shorter distance leading to a marked improvement in hold sensitivity. I would recomend 12mm for .22 and 10mm for .177.

Get yourself to the boinger bash at the end of the month to try some first.

[clarky]

The 95 has a power difference spread of +/- 0.5 ft/lb with an extension, the norm is for very little change as the extra preload nicely balances the lost swept volume. The piston then travels faster over a shorter distance leading to a marked improvement in hold sensitivity. I would recomend 12mm for .22 and 10mm for .177.

Get yourself to the boinger bash at the end of the month to try some first.

Ok but be sure to have a regular Delrin tricked out 95 on hand to test against ...i honestly struggled to feel a difference with the 8 mm increased piston length i used.....and like you say i got a drop of a good 40 fps..

Tin....when you introduced more pre load to offset these losses did you not get a slight increase in felt recoil from it, negating the gains made by short stroking......i avoided doing that with my own mods as it kind of intuitively fought against what i was trying to do by shortening the stroke in the first place ....but i hold my hands up ...i didnt explore it.

[tinbum]

Ok but be sure to have a regular Delrin tricked out 95 on hand to test against ...i honestly struggled to feel a difference with the 8 mm increased piston length i used.....

At the bash there any many in all states of tune from all manufacturers. The difference is very easy to tell.

and like you say i got a drop of a good 40 fps..

No I didn't?

Tin....when you introduced more pre load to offset these losses did you not get a slight increase in felt recoil from it, negating the gains made by short stroking......i avoided doing that with my own mods as it kind of intuitively fought against what i was trying to do by shortening the stroke in the first place ....but i hold my hands up ...i didnt explore it.

No

[Mark A]

I doubt 8-12mm extra preload would add detectable recoil, but i'm no tuning expert. I would be interested to hear from some more HW95 owners that have tried the shortstroke heads. Fancy fitting one to my .22 HW95 when i get it. But i'll see what its like with just delrin tophat and guide first. I know my .177 is pretty jumpy and hold sensitive and would probably benefit from a faster lock time.

[flyingfish]

I put the short stroke kit with spring in my HW98.
I love the gun. Accurate and very little recoil. No twang.

Pete

[clarky]

At the bash there any many in all states of tune from all manufacturers. The difference is very easy to tell.



No I didn't?




No

You just mentioned you got a 0.5ftlb drop but which you offset by adding pre load.
My own tests proved a similar drop in power but i never tried to offset it.

[tinbum]

You just mentioned you got a 0.5ftlb drop but which you offset by adding pre load.
My own tests proved a similar drop in power but i never tried to offset it.

No, what I said was a +/- 0.5 ft/lb spread can be experienced, but most have no significant change.
Half those whose power changes result in an increase of power, leading to the necessity of a reduction in spring. Pretty much the opposite of what your attempt resulted in.

To be fair, we do 300/400 a month and have it pretty much perfected. If you're experimenting yourself results can't be expected to be as good. Experimentation is key though! Keep at it, you'll get there in the end.

[clarky]

I doubt 8-12mm extra preload would add detectable recoil, but i'm no tuning expert. I would be interested to hear from some more HW95 owners that have tried the shortstroke heads. Fancy fitting one to my .22 HW95 when i get it. But i'll see what its like with just delrin tophat and guide first. I know my .177 is pretty jumpy and hold sensitive and would probably benefit from a faster lock time.

The .177 is harsher due to compression parameters not being so happy with the smaller caliber..but a top hat and guide in Delrin will improve any gun....and will yours.
Do not put a Delrin thruster with Delrin guide though...i recently noticed the 2 materials starting to pick up on each other in one of my guns. Classic engineering suggests you put differing materials together for good reason.
Hence i now use a Stainless steel thruster with my mods...
Its a learning process this tuning.

[tinbum]

The .177 is harsher due to compression parameters not being so happy with the smaller caliber..but a top hat and guide in Delrin will improve any gun....and will yours.
Do not put a Delrin thruster with Delrin guide though...i recently noticed the 2 materials starting to pick up on each other in one of my guns. Classic engineering suggests you put differing materials together for good reason.
Hence i now use a Stainless steel thruster with my mods...
Its a learning process this tuning.

I don't use Delrin. Nasty stuff!

[clarky]

No, what I said was a +/- 0.5 ft/lb spread can be experienced, but most have no significant change.
Half those whose power changes result in an increase of power, leading to the necessity of a reduction in spring. Pretty much the opposite of what your attempt resulted in.

To be fair, we do 300/400 a month and have it pretty much perfected. If you're experimenting yourself results can't be expected to be as good. Experimentation is key though! Keep at it, you'll get there in the end.

but you will always get a positive result in power terms from the use of delrin alone ....
By shifting to a low friction Delrin guide and hat i found i needed to lose a coil with the 95 to stay safe and this without the use of a thruster ....
Are u actually saying u get a power increase from having a shorter stroke?

[tinbum]

Are u actually saying u get a power increase from having a shorter stroke?

Yes! Which part of +/- 0.5 ft/lb are you struggling with?

These aren't just plastic bits run up haphazardly in the shed. They have been designed and refined over years of production to work with all the other parts of a specifically designed improvement system.

One last time:
MOST have no real change in power, SOME lose a little, SOME gain a little.