Girardoni inuenit et fecit

[DT Fletcher]

So, for the last few years I've been associating with some of the Napoleonic history forums and have made known my special interest in the Girandoni. Not much has come from this until today when a researcher tossed up a handful of references. A number of which are very interesting. One in particular
http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?...fld_0=AK004240

shows a somewhat different looking Girandoni (at least different from the usual 11mm English made ones) and what was most striking was the caliber 1.4cm. So, I fired off a note to the museum and got a fast response. I've put the question to them about the importance of verifying the caliber and in the mean time they sent me the full catalog record. The gun is inscribed: GIRARDONI INUENIT ET FECIT (Girardoni invented it and made it)

[greenwayjames]

Maybe it was a prototype made in a larger calibre that took the makers fancy but when production began this was reduced in favour of a bit more velocity. I was shown one by Bate of London in .46” calibre which seems to be a popular size of copies. Thanks for the information.

[DT Fletcher]

Maybe it was a prototype made in a larger calibre that took the makers fancy but when production began this was reduced in favour of a bit more velocity. I was shown one by Bate of London in .46” calibre which seems to be a popular size of copies. Thanks for the information.

In a sense, you are right. The original Girardoni was a mess in that it was unreliable in the field. There was a follow-on model to the original Girardoni designed by professor Nemetz. It is this Nemetz model that is seen so much of today. The Nemetz was produced in England, or at least it's parts were, and it was widely distributed, including the air rifle carried by Meriwether Lewis. These "G" marked Girardoni's often seen are of the Nemetz design.

Just about everything written by Bob Beeman on this subject, I've been saying for years, is wrong. Mostly a product of confirmation bias in that Beeman wanted to prove that the air rifle he owned was a legit Girardoni and, of course, carried by M. Lewis. This "Girardoni invent et fecit" example, if we can confirm it, would be the ultimate proof of my contention that Beeman is in error.

[greenwayjames]

In a sense, you are right. The original Girardoni was a mess in that it was unreliable in the field. There was a follow-on model to the original Girardoni designed by professor Nemetz. It is this Nemetz model that is seen so much of today. The Nemetz was produced in England, or at least it's parts were, and it was widely distributed, including the air rifle carried by Meriwether Lewis. These "G" marked Girardoni's often seen are of the Nemetz design.

Just about everything written by Bob Beeman on this subject, I've been saying for years, is wrong. Mostly a product of confirmation bias in that Beeman wanted to prove that the air rifle he owned was a legit Girardoni and, of course, carried by M. Lewis. This "Girardoni invent et fecit" example, if we can confirm it, would be the ultimate proof of my contention that Beeman is in error.

Thanks for the information. I find the subject fascinating. I was shown and read an article many years ago about Merriweather Lewis himself, his life and death, rather than the expedition. It may have been in Readers Digest. He was a very interesting character. The bulk of the article concerned his death. It laid out a conspiracy theory that he was murdered by unknown “government forces” and went into detail about the circumstances. It was illustrated with a portrait of M. Lewis in the article. The other illustration was of more interest. It was of an air rifle. Before the expedition he owned and used this air rifle himself. It was a ball reservoir rifle with an unusual trip mechanism on top of the action. The mechanism, I was told by the owner of the article , was similar to that used by Lukens on his butt reservoir rifles. Lukens and Lewis’s connections regarding the town clock, I seem to remember, were mentioned so its fair to assume that Lewis might have had the air rifle made for him by Lukens. He was definitely an airgun enthusiast.

[DT Fletcher]

Thanks for the information. I find the subject fascinating. I was shown and read an article many years ago about Merriweather Lewis himself, his life and death, rather than the expedition. It may have been in Readers Digest. He was a very interesting character. The bulk of the article concerned his death. It laid out a conspiracy theory that he was murdered by unknown “government forces” and went into detail about the circumstances. It was illustrated with a portrait of M. Lewis in the article. The other illustration was of more interest. It was of an air rifle. Before the expedition he owned and used this air rifle himself. It was a ball reservoir rifle with an unusual trip mechanism on top of the action. The mechanism, I was told by the owner of the article , was similar to that used by Lukens on his butt reservoir rifles. Lukens and Lewis’s connections regarding the town clock, I seem to remember, were mentioned so its fair to assume that Lewis might have had the air rifle made for him by Lukens. He was definitely an airgun enthusiast.

Yes. I've read the same article. No. That is not the original Lewis air rifle. Everything changed with publication of "A Journey through the West: Thomas Rodney's 1803 Journal from Delaware to the Mississippi Territory" Here's a review: https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals...ew/11775/17257

From Rodney's journal, it is absolutely clear that Lewis is operating a Girandoni type airgun. This was the premier air rifle available in the world at the time. They were made in abundance, as was Lewis's, in London. The airguns made by Lukens pale in comparison. For a wonderful example, see the Staudenmayer in the Milwaukee Public Museum. This Staudenmayer is exactly the same as that seen in Baker/Currie Austrian Military Air Rifle M-1780. Of course, what Baker/Currie do not understand is that the gun they examined and reported so well is the product of English manufacturing, so, their title is a bit off. However, the gun was designed in Austria by professor Nemetz and was used by the Austrians.

So, bottom line, Lukens is out of the running.

[greenwayjames]

Yes. I've read the same article. No. That is not the original Lewis air rifle. Everything changed with publication of "A Journey through the West: Thomas Rodney's 1803 Journal from Delaware to the Mississippi Territory" Here's a review: https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals...ew/11775/17257

From Rodney's journal, it is absolutely clear that Lewis is operating a Girandoni type airgun. This was the premier air rifle available in the world at the time. They were made in abundance, as was Lewis's, in London. The airguns made by Lukens pale in comparison. For a wonderful example, see the Staudenmayer in the Milwaukee Public Museum. This Staudenmayer is exactly the same as that seen in Baker/Currie Austrian Military Air Rifle M-1780. Of course, what Baker/Currie do not understand is that the gun they examined and reported so well is the product of English manufacturing, so, their title is a bit off. However, the gun was designed in Austria by professor Nemetz and was used by the Austrians.

So, bottom line, Lukens is out of the running.

With respect you have misunderstood what I posted. I was referring to Meriweathers owning an air rifle before the expedition and that likely to be a Lukens. Thanks for the references, I will be a busy bee

[greenwayjames]

In a sense, you are right. The original Girardoni was a mess in that it was unreliable in the field. There was a follow-on model to the original Girardoni designed by professor Nemetz. It is this Nemetz model that is seen so much of today. The Nemetz was produced in England, or at least it's parts were, and it was widely distributed, including the air rifle carried by Meriwether Lewis. These "G" marked Girardoni's often seen are of the Nemetz design.

Just about everything written by Bob Beeman on this subject, I've been saying for years, is wrong. Mostly a product of confirmation bias in that Beeman wanted to prove that the air rifle he owned was a legit Girardoni and, of course, carried by M. Lewis. This "Girardoni invent et fecit" example, if we can confirm it, would be the ultimate proof of my contention that Beeman is in error.

Assumptions and simple maths. It would seem reasonable to assume that the “English” copies of the military Girandoni are of similar proportions to keep the overall look. If this wasn’t the case then why bother to make them look similar. They could have just put the same mechanism in one of their own design air rifles. The tubular ball magazines on the side of the rifles being the same length, for appearance sake, the accepted military calibre of .51” Girandoni had a stated capacity of 20 and Lewis and Clarkes had 22 as described by Rodney when shown it. Why? A good guess would be that the Lewis and Clarke rifle was a civilian copy of the Girandoni which are usually of smaller calibre.
20 .51” balls in a row equal 10.2”.
22 .46” balls in a row equal 10.12”.
Probably just a load of balls but the thought occurred to me as I was having a good long soak in the bath. What do you think?

[DT Fletcher]

Assumptions and simple maths. It would seem reasonable to assume that the “English” copies of the military Girandoni are of similar proportions to keep the overall look. If this wasn’t the case then why bother to make them look similar. They could have just put the same mechanism in one of their own design air rifles. The tubular ball magazines on the side of the rifles being the same length, for appearance sake, the accepted military calibre of .51” Girandoni had a stated capacity of 20 and Lewis and Clarkes had 22 as described by Rodney when shown it. Why? A good guess would be that the Lewis and Clarke rifle was a civilian copy of the Girandoni which are usually of smaller calibre.
20 .51” balls in a row equal 10.2”.
22 .46” balls in a row equal 10.12”.
Probably just a load of balls but the thought occurred to me as I was having a good long soak in the bath. What do you think?

I've never been a fan of any of the magazine capacity arguments. Also, for the most part, I do not accept any civilian vs military distinction; at least not as described by Beeman.

The original Inuit et Fecit Girardoni, model 1780, was the larger caliber from original documentation and reports. This seems to have been confirmed by our one example of an original. And, yes, of course this was a military weapon. However, there is absolutely no information to support the (Beeman) contention that Girardoni ever produced any air guns for the civilian market.

The 2nd model Girandoni is based on the circa 1786 Nemetz design which is the smaller caliber. These were manufactured in England and, although I've written that they are English made copies of the Girandoni, they are more an original Austrian design that, for one reason or another, was produced in England. How this transfer of advanced Austrian airgun technology happened is not documented. My guess is that since the earliest examples of Girandoni types being produced in England (the earliest I aware of are circa 1795 Bates) comes around 1795. Just before this time, Mr. Austrian Airgun expert, FM Karl Mack, was in charge of the First Coalition war against Revolutionary France and he even made a trip to London circa 1794. My guess is that Mack transferred the technology.

This 2nd (Nemetz) model is the predominant model we see today. The exact same model was produced for Austrian military needs (the "G" guns) and for non military means. So, there really is no distinction between the military and civilian versions, other than some of the civilian guns have well known English gun makers names on them, like Staudenmeyer. Otherwise, these are all the same gun.

Note also that Austrian interest and use of the airgun did not go away until well into mid century. The airgun was still on the materials list for defensive fortress sieges in 1860. The last combat report we have of the Austrians using the Girandoni was 1809 in a defensive siege of a fortress. One of the key reasons was that the Austrians appreciated that an airgun could be used in confined and explosive environments found in fortresses: it's called the Underground War. None of this info is currently available outside of the original German texts. I've researched this and have translations which will be available when I get the book done. But, the entire Underground War aspect to the airgun is fascinating. It's the direct reason for one of the first implementations of the airgun in war circa 1750.

While I'm at it, the reason for the Austrian interest in a repeating weapon comes from fighting their traditional enemy: the Turks. The Turkish would typically attack in an unorganized mass and just rush the enemy with overwhelming numbers. In that type of fighting, rapid fire was essential. When it came time to fight the French, the rapid fire issue went away. The Austrian Army wanted nothing to do with any of these rapid fire weapons. Against the French, in the first couple of years, the airgun was only used during sieges by specialized Tyrollean Sharpshooters in the front trenches to pick off any Frenchman they could spot on the ramparts.

[greenwayjames]

I don’t know anything about magazine capacity arguments. It was just an idea that went through my head yesterday. You state as a fact that the 2nd model Girandonis were made in England. That seems rather odd. What is it based on? I would be interested to know more. This subject is beginning to fascinate me but at the same time there seems to be a lot of confusion. I should pay more attention as t said in my school reports.

[Garvin]

So, for the last few years I've been associating with some of the Napoleonic history forums and have made known my special interest in the Girandoni. Not much has come from this until today when a researcher tossed up a handful of references. A number of which are very interesting. One in particular
http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?...fld_0=AK004240

shows a somewhat different looking Girandoni (at least different from the usual 11mm English made ones) and what was most striking was the caliber 1.4cm. So, I fired off a note to the museum and got a fast response. I've put the question to them about the importance of verifying the caliber and in the mean time they sent me the full catalog record. The gun is inscribed: GIRARDONI INUENIT ET FECIT (Girardoni invented it and made it)

I make that about .55 cal - is that right? Terrible pic - are they sending more?

[DT Fletcher]

I make that about .55 cal - is that right? Terrible pic - are they sending more?

They only have the one terrible picture. For more pictures, I have to pay 50plus euro for the 1st and then 25euro for each one after. So, I told them, yes I'll pay for a bunch of photos but first we need to confirm the caliber.

I explained to them that many of these air guns are mislabeled (in caliber) because the literature calls for a 13mm weapon (of course, ignoring Beeman's push for 11.5mm) but when actually investigated they turn out to be the smaller English version of the gun. Hopefully we'll get some action on that.

In any case, what's inscribed on the gun is the highlight here: Girardoni invent et fecit, or, made by the inventor, Girardoni. So, this is either the first genuine Girardoni or it's an excellent fake. I'm leaning towards this being our first genuine Girardoni.