UK Shooting News - aka Parliamentary Air Rifle Debate

[Ooopz]

Well Mr ooopz for a start the 12fpe limit was asked for by the UK airgun industry in the 1960's iirc, to stop the import of more powerful foreign airguns it had absolutely nothing to do with "criminal use" as you claim.

I stand corrected, but my reading showed that it came about as a result of some one shooting at building site workers. Unfortunately I can't reference it as it was way back.

Country sports are under represented because in real terms only a minority of people do them, and of those that do some of us would gladly see certain others banned outright,.

This is exactly why there's a need for the various groups to band together. The substance of suggestion was that the various sporting bodies worked together where ever they could find common ground. Surely that would be more useful than multiple disparate approaches?

I personally will never support an organisation that supports hunting with dogs.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure many feel that way on a number of issues, I'm not too keen on fox hunting. As a member of a given body you'd have the the option of reflecting your opinion when voting to approve or disapprove the offerings put before you

This whole thread is largely mass hysterics to something that has not been said, indeed the minister involved stated himself at the time that we already have extremely tight rules, the problem is that idiots don't abide by them.

I respect your opinion but I respectfully disagree with you. I read what the minister said, IMHO as a politician his words are worthless until his chosen course of action is in front of us.

Idiots will always be amongst us, the issue is ensuring that their actions don't penalise the rest of us. I'd prefer to see measured, proactive responses to these situation rather than rely on the benevolence of a politician.

I can't speak for other people but my post was intended to draw attention to what I feel is a much bigger picture than a single issue. However this single issue is clearly important to many people, including my self because the perception is it'll be used against us

[bighit]

Tommy Sheridan SG
I thank Mr Martin for whatever clarification that offered. I argue that the only conscription that we should be considering for our country is conscription into full-time education so that we can give as many young people as possible the chance to realise the potential that every single one of them has. That means good employment potential—apprenticeships as well as education.

I want to touch on one aspect of antisocial behaviour in my limited time and I want to ask for the leadership from the minister that Mr Martin asked for. In 79 per cent of the acts of vandalism that were recorded in 2005-06, air-guns were used. In the same year, in 57 per cent of offences of minor assault, air-guns were used and in 75 per cent of offences of serious assault, air-guns were used. Since 1999, there have been 1,154 air-gun injuries and, tragically, three fatalities—two in Glasgow and one in Bathgate. A growing proportion of all offences involving firearms is related to air-guns. In 2004-5, 43 per cent of all firearms offences were related to air-guns and in 2005-06 that percentage rose to 58 per cent.

It is quite clear to me and, I argue, to the overwhelming majority of people in Scotland that the problem of air-guns has to be tackled in the context of our overall approach to antisocial behaviour. A couple of years ago many promises were made that the issue would be tackled, but unfortunately those promises have not been fulfilled.

Three weeks ago, System 3 published the results of an independent opinion poll of more than 1,000 Scots. The poll asked the people of Scotland whether they support or oppose a ban on the sale of air-guns in Scotland. Eighty-two per cent of Scottish people said that they support a ban. Only 8 per cent opposed it; the remainder were "don't knows". Significantly, in cities such as Glasgow, 93 per cent of people support a ban on air-guns. In the youngest and oldest age groups—18 to 25-year olds and over-65s—the proportion of people who support a ban is 85 per cent. Among the working class—the so-called D and E group—86 per cent support a ban.

I plead with the minister to be prepared to show leadership on the question and to say loud and clear that Parliament supports a ban on air-guns and that, if Westminster is not prepared to act, the Scottish Parliament will pass legislation banning their sale.

[Geezer]

The number of licensed firearms in the USA averages out to 1.75 for every single person.

And the USA is probably the biggest manufacturer and exporter of guns in the world.

That's why the NRA has teeth.

It is also aware of just how the British people were deprived of their fundamental right to own firearms by one stealthy move after another from the end of the first world war right up to the present day

Before the great war you could buy a gun without a license from a hardware shop.

And.yet murder by firearms was extremely rare.

Murder rates in developed countries (by whatever weapon) were much lower in 1900 than now. In the US, the rate appears (the statistics are not perfect) to be that about 1-2 deaths in 100,000 were murder then. By the 1970s and beyond, it's more like 6-10. The US murder rate has actually gone down a bit since 1980.

Murder rates in the last half of the 19th Century in the UK actually go down, despite the introduction of police forces, the beginnings of forensics, and other factors that should increase the detection and successful prosecution of serious crimes.

No-one really knows why these murder rates have varied. There are various theories. None is fully convincing.

And bear in mind that advances in medical provision mean that more people who would in the past have died should not have died more recently.

That means that we have a violence problem, fundamentally, and have for at least five decades.

But it also means that if you have a violence problem, the ready availability of weapons becomes a much bigger issue that when you don't have a violence problem. Controls on availability may only be treating the symptoms, not the disease, but it may be beyond the wit of man to understand and deal with the disease. Which leaves you with the symptoms.

Kind of, I want a cure for the common cold, but until I get one, I'll have lemsip and contac.

The inherent unfairness is that if we don't have the violence disease, we don't need the medicine. If you or I owned, say, a GPMG or an RPG7, we would be less of a danger to public safety than someone else with a butcher's knife. But how do the authorities make the judgment about which of us is which? And how do they manage the risk of our GPMG or RPG getting stolen by a dangerous person, or you or I having some sort of homicidal mental episode?

[danco1987]

I've had a reply from my MP saying he understands my concerns and my letter has been passed on to ministers at the Home Office. He'll be letting me know when he gets a response.
I'll post any response I get from the HO here and forward to the BASC. The wording of it hopefully should reveal the direction they're going to take this review in.

[Black Beard]

[QUOTE=bighit;7359984]Tommy Sheridan SG
I thank Mr Martin for whatever clarification that offered. I argue that the only conscription that we should be considering for our country is conscription into full-time education so that we can give as many young people as possible the chance to realise the potential that every single one of them has. That means good employment potential¡ªapprenticeships as well as education.

I want to touch on one aspect of antisocial behaviour in my limited time and I want to ask for the leadership from the minister that Mr Martin asked for. In 79 per cent of the acts of vandalism that were recorded in 2005-06, air-guns were used. In the same year, in 57 per cent of offences of minor assault, air-guns were used and in 75 per cent of offences of serious assault, air-guns were used. Since 1999, there have been 1,154 air-gun injuries and, tragically, three fatalities¡ªtwo in Glasgow and one in Bathgate. A growing proportion of all offences involving firearms is related to air-guns. In 2004-5, 43 per cent of all firearms offences were related to air-guns and in 2005-06 that percentage rose to 58 per cent.





This doesn't make any sense. So those kids smashing up bus stops or spraying graffitti used airguns. A punch up in the city centre involves airguns. Domestic violence involves airguns.
These statistics are nonsense.

[Zomboid]

http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/gun-crime

In England and Wales firearms were reportedly used in 11,227 offences, 0.3% of all recorded crimes.
There were 7,024 offences in England and Wales in which firearms, excluding air weapons, were reportedly used, a 13% decrease on the previous year, continuing the general decline since 2005/06.
There were 4,203 recorded crimes in which air weapons were reportedly used during 2010/11, a fall of 15% compared with the previous year and 70% below the peak recorded in 2002/03.
In Scotland the police recorded 643 offences which involved the alleged use of a firearm, a 24% decrease on 2009/10. The number of offences has fallen in each of the last four years.
A non-air weapon was alleged to have been used in 410 offences, marginally lower than in 2009/10, while there were 233 alleged air-weapon offences, 45% lower than the previous year.

Makes a mockery of the Scottish laws and any consideration to tighten any of the current England and Wales laws.

[Zomboid]

And further:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...on-air-weapons

Up until the recent 2% rise, the number of offences involving firearms has been falling year-on-year since its peak in the year ending March 2004 (when 24,094 offences were recorded). The latest figure of 7,866 offences represents a fall of two-thirds (67%) since then (Figure 3.2):

- the number of offences involving air weapons has fallen by 10,868 offences (79%) since the year ending March 2003, when the National Crime Recording Standard (NCRS) was introduced, from 13,822 to 2,954 offences

I think this puts any other stats used here into the bin it deserves to be in.

[villaman]

So are BB guns and airsoft guns included in these figures ?

[bighit]

[QUOTE=Black Beard;7360380]

Tommy Sheridan SG
I thank Mr Martin for whatever clarification that offered. I argue that the only conscription that we should be considering for our country is conscription into full-time education so that we can give as many young people as possible the chance to realise the potential that every single one of them has. That means good employment potential¡ªapprenticeships as well as education.

I want to touch on one aspect of antisocial behaviour in my limited time and I want to ask for the leadership from the minister that Mr Martin asked for. In 79 per cent of the acts of vandalism that were recorded in 2005-06, air-guns were used. In the same year, in 57 per cent of offences of minor assault, air-guns were used and in 75 per cent of offences of serious assault, air-guns were used. Since 1999, there have been 1,154 air-gun injuries and, tragically, three fatalities¡ªtwo in Glasgow and one in Bathgate. A growing proportion of all offences involving firearms is related to air-guns. In 2004-5, 43 per cent of all firearms offences were related to air-guns and in 2005-06 that percentage rose to 58 per cent.





This doesn't make any sense. So those kids smashing up bus stops or spraying graffitti used airguns. A punch up in the city centre involves airguns. Domestic violence involves airguns.
These statistics are nonsense.

that's Tommy sheridan for you . he was the first if i remember right to try and ban airguns up here .he was pandering to the junkie parent of the child that died . not 100% sure but rumours were that the rifle used to kill the child was given to the killer as payment for drugs debt . as i said im not 100% sure .

his proposals in 2006 http://www.parliament.scot/S2_Member...nsultation.pdf

and the killer will be out of jail soon .possibly march next year .

[Shed tuner]

The inherent unfairness is that if we don't have the violence disease, we don't need the medicine. If you or I owned, say, a GPMG or an RPG7, we would be less of a danger to public safety than someone else with a butcher's knife. But how do the authorities make the judgment about which of us is which? And how do they manage the risk of our GPMG or RPG getting stolen by a dangerous person, or you or I having some sort of homicidal mental episode?

Interesting...

[Zomboid]

So are BB guns and airsoft guns included in these figures ?

Possibly. It just says "air weapons".

[villaman]

Possibly. It just says "air weapons".

That is the trouble, people class them the same as air guns and with that it gets our sport a bad name

[lensman57]

And further:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...on-air-weapons

Up until the recent 2% rise, the number of offences involving firearms has been falling year-on-year since its peak in the year ending March 2004 (when 24,094 offences were recorded). The latest figure of 7,866 offences represents a fall of two-thirds (67%) since then (Figure 3.2):

- the number of offences involving air weapons has fallen by 10,868 offences (79%) since the year ending March 2003, when the National Crime Recording Standard (NCRS) was introduced, from 13,822 to 2,954 offences

I think this puts any other stats used here into the bin it deserves to be in.

This is exactly what I was hoping for. I really do not believe that the motive behind this review has anything to do with crime figures nor public safety as such. I am absolutely sure that there are other agenda at work.

A.G

[Zomboid]

That is the trouble, people class them the same as air guns and with that it gets our sport a bad name

There was also an "imitation" and "unknown" section too. Soft Air would certainly crop up in the former given at a distance they look exactly the same as the real thing.

[Oldbean]

Reading the scottish rules ,other than having to apply / buy a licence and I guess justifying it ( club membership?)
And sensible security measures ...is there that much to be afraid of?
I guess once registered it leaves the door open to more draconian measures in the future ......
No reason NOT to fight any English proposals
I might have got it wrong. So I know someone will be along to correct me.
Have fun