You can spend thousands and still miss a barn door or spend just enough and enjoy yourself. If you haven't got the talent to start with a million pound won't fix it. Whippet, Russell, a few bang sticks and a flat cap. http://www.smart-tech1st.co.uk
I wonder if these comments have some merit.
I posted recently on the legislation thread about idiotic behaviour with air rifles and Phil felt he had to delete it as we don't want to give the antis any real ammunition. I respect that point of view and have no problem with Phil doing what he feels he needs to do.
I do wonder, as a community, if we need to be sensible and have some sort of rules as to how we want airgunners in the UK portrayed.
I was posting on the legislation thread on behalf of decent airgunners who may have mental health issues and the fears that some of them may fall foul of a licensing system. I mention that because I was making the point that we need to stick together and don't segregate, as that may make us weaker.
However, I do wonder if we need to make the point that the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK go about their hobby safely and sensibly. Youngsters warned of dangers and trained accordingly, pests controlled but in a manner that tries to ensure a clean kill and minimises wounding and suffering, a lot of well organised target shooting including a lot of fund raising for worthwhile charities. Also, to add that any idiotic behaviour with air rifles that may cause concern to the public, damage to property or God forbid personal injury is abhorred by the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK. Probably more so than non airgunners as it threatens the sport that we love. I think we probably have to include in that hunters who like to brag about taking shots at animals from extreme ranges or through thick branches etc. Let's be honest, when a thread appears on here and someone starts talking about taking head shots at 60 yards they are often shouted down, and told that hunting should be limited to a range where the risk of wounding is minimised. So I'm not inventing this attitude.
Maybe ... just maybe ... this may ask questions as to whether it's clever posting hunting kill pics up all over the internet. I'm not going as far as saying that no hunting pics should be posted, either in the mags or online. I think there is a massive difference ( image portrayed wise ) between a sensibly written hunting article talking about equipment and tactics used, maybe even a photo showing the shot quarry ( never floated my boat to be honest ... I know what a rabbit or a squirrel looks like ... so I'm sure I know what a dead one lying on the floor looks like ), and an article with comments like " ... and FIZZ THWACK, 14gr of BYE BYE hit home with a satisfying thud ", accompanied by some guy in camo, with a big grin on his face, holding up quarry with blood on it's head. Is there a difference between controlling a pest with it's welfare in mind, and holding it's corpse up with a big grin on your face? Is there a difference between how that comes across to non shooting members of the public?
This isn't going to be a battle we can win by making a big noise about it. The Scots found that out. There aren't enough of us Vs them I'm afraid. I hate to use this sickening phrase but this a ... Hearts and Minds campaign.
Just look at what has been happening regarding all the terrorist attacks. There's been a big hearts and minds campaign going on there now for some time. Whenever there is an attack by someone believed to be Muslim, the radio and TV are quickly bombarded by interviews with local Muslim leaders, all condemning the actions of the few that are committing atrocities and claiming to be doing it in the name of Islam. They are basically saying ... This isn't a representation of all of us ... we condemn what these few people are doing too.
I think we need to be doing a similar thing. I don't think it does us any favours pretending that no one does anything stupid with an air rifle. I think we should be saying that we know a minority do some pretty stupid things with air rifles but it is a very small minority and the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK despise and condemn what they are doing. That greatest majority includes many many hunters who get the job done with the animal's welfare in mind, by buying the correct equipment and training and practising how to use it, so that any suffering is minimised or eliminated.
Where you draw the line re blooded kills being held up for display, with the hunter grinning like he's just won the Post Code Lottery, I just don't know. I can't see how that is ever going to shine a bright light upon us.
The fact is ... the papers aren't posting articles about target comps that have just made money for hospices. They aren't saying what a great job airgunners do controlling vermin. They are feeding the hippo by showing graphic photos that will stir great hatred in a massive percentage of the public ( dead animal covered in blood being held up whilst a camo clad airgunner smiles ). You couldn't make it more antagonising if you tried. If you sat down and tried to design an anti airgun poster ... you simply couldn't do any better than that. Why would we want to do that?
My thoughts as well
Boz does make some salient points though about the portrayal we give to the public. Professional, calm pest control can be argued quite well but a (IMHO) OTT public FB page is just asking for trouble. I find this a bit tricky as shooters should be allowed to carry out permissible pest control without the fear of vilification.
I would be interested to hear Si Pittaways views on this.
Chairman Emley Moor F.T.C. 2023 - Misfits champ, HFT extreme champ, NEFTA hunter champ, Midlands Hunter champ, UKAHFT champ.
https://sites.google.com/site/emleymoorftc/contact-us
" Where you draw the line re blooded kills being held up for display, with the hunter grinning like he's just won the Post Code Lottery, I just don't know. I can't see how that is ever going to shine a bright light upon us."
I want to know exactly what percentage of air gun owners actually do shoot animals/pests ? I no longer do and I doubt if the number is that many infact. The problem is that due to the exposure on virtual media they are much more in the face.
A.G
Lensman
I'm probably heading towards posts being deleted here.
Ask yourself why the mags have a lot of articles on hunting ... often showing camo clad guys wandering around woods, and with dead quarry photos ( no where near as graphic as the ones in the DM ).
The mags know that a decent percentage of people either already hunt or may fancy a go at hunting with air rifles.
I've been shooting for 40 years ( add another 10 shooting my brother's rifles up the garden ). I've known loads of people have a go at air rifle shooting. The greatest majority of them have bought an air rifle to go hunting. Not all of them stuck at it for too long.
If I'm honest, I reckon if you had a photo of someone sitting on a cushion, in a gimp suit, holding 3 grand's worth of target rifle and scope shooting Field Target in a wood ... or a cropped headed guy in camo holding a tactical rifle and a shot rabbit, I could tell you which one of those photos will get more people walking into a gun shop and asking to buy an air rifle.
There's nothing wrong with that. We need the hunters. I don't think we need the attention that the glorifying kill photos bring.
According to the Basc's value of shooting research, industry data suggests there are 4 million (est) airgun owners in the UK – of which 1.6 m shoot live quarry (40%).
A total of 16,234 questionnaires were completed, making this the most comprehensive research into the value of shooting ever undertaken in the United Kingdom.
Danny
My collection = Ratworks BSA Scorpion T-10 .177, HW100KS .177 (tweaked by me), PP750, Crosman 1322 and 1377
Moley
Let me make this clear ... I'm not saying the press or the complainants are right.
I'm saying this stuff hurts us and we have to make a decision whether we hold firm and shove a finger up to the complainants, or whether we say to our community ... Folks, we have to be careful what we post up on the internet for our own good. I'm never going to tell someone they shouldn't hunt with an airgun. I do think they should get on with the job within certain guidelines. That'll be buying the right kit ... learning how to use it ... minimise suffering ... and ask where the thrill is in glorifying the kills.
This public ... strange folk. They all enjoy their bacon butties. They don't all want to see a graphic video from a normal abattoir showing how we kill and butcher little piggies.
If we want to protect our sport we need to play the system.
Im not sure you can compare that with killing for enjoyment, anyway veganism is the fastest growing lifestyle movement in the UK up 360% in the past 10 years, this is what I mean by changing modern times that we live in.
If we can get Vegans to take up airgunning the sport might be safe
i left the lamping foxes facebook page due to seeing foxes with their eyes popping out, their guts hanging out pics that were getting posted up every few days . the admin on the page would ask folk to tone the pics down but they continued to post them up. they were getting worse and worse every post . it was like "see who can destroy the fox the most competition"
a pic to show how many you bagged like moley quoted is fine by me and can serve as record for the shooting in a sort of journal type way . but not pics of birds that are just a mass of feathers like on some pics.
we all know what a .17hmr can do to a rabbit's head ,we don't need to see it on places like the BBS or facebook groups .
I agree. I don't mind seeing the result of a well placed airgun shot on a rabbits head but as I have mentioned several times before, there is no need to show the result of the impact of a 223 round on a fox or a rabbit. In fact I find it disgusting, nor do I think that it is necessary to display dead fox cubs next to the bitch . It doesn't bother me but I am sure that there are a lot of people out there who do get emotional about seeing these dead animals and get the wrong ideas.
A.G
exactly . its just not needed ,as i said we all know what a bullet or pellet can do to animal. so we don't need to see it spread all over the area it fell on. some on the lamping foxes pages had shooters leaving the page in disgust at the pics . a lot looked like misplaced shots and the animal possibly suffering with its insides on the outside .
Even though the above posts place the blame at opposite ends, both are equally correct.
The mail article was pathetic ill informed journalistic diarrhoea, of the worst kind,
but the people who put those pictures up on farcebook in the first place can't have the brains they were born with.
I shoot pests/vermin & have done for 40odd years, but I've never felt the need for gloating pictures & can't understand why people do .
Lensman I seem to remember Terry saying better than 70% of his readers hunt.