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Thread: Mail slams vigilante airgunners

  1. #46
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    Barryg is offline Registered ̶D̶i̶a̶n̶a̶ User
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    What ever the rights and wrongs of the media, we all have to live in modern times so does not anyone here think that posting pictures like those on the internet facebook or whatever that looks like airgunners are enjoying killing animals is bonkers, so why would anyone want to post pictures like that instead of shooters of all ages and disabled having safe fun competing in competition and plinking without doing any real harm.
    If airgunning don't change its image it may not have a long term future in modern times

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    Quote Originally Posted by danco1987 View Post
    What, the same ill informed article about grey squirrels hunters with zero calls for extended regulation across three rags? No that doesn't convince me yet. If more and more exaggerated articles crop up over the upcoming months then maybe so. Until then I'm going to carry on enjoying the sport, promoting responsible use when it comes up in conversation, communicating with my local MP and advising the BASC that my airgun or any form of membership, which I've had for the past 6 or so years, will not be renewed if any form of licencing comes about in the future.
    despite what you may have read on here about BASC not doing enough in relation to the scottish airgun license ,i would suggest you do some research to see what they and SACs did do.and how the scottish government ignored their facts and the voices of many many thousands of people that signed petitions or wrote to their MSPs . they did more than most people will know but some think they did nothing and when i advised one to ask BASC what they did i suspect they never contacted them

    david ewing ,BASC ,SACs and loads of other groups and people including people from england (thank you ,it was appreciated) did all they could they could do in their power . the scottish government did not care and rode roughshod over the facts and pushed the scheme through.

    you may be lucky and if they speak of doing the same scheme , they MAY listen to your case and not implement the scheme .

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy001 View Post
    The squirrel page,

    We have been contacted by the Express & the Mirror for comment on a story they say they'll be publishing tomorrow. We haven't given them an official response. It seems pointless because its blatantly obvious its going to be negative sensationalism by the tabloids. We did suggest that we may comment if they gave us some money....its gone quiet up till now ! ;-)


    Mirror has followed it up! Do they get paid per article!

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...boast-11347685
    RUSSELL MYERS
    Russell Myers is Chief Investigative Reporter for the Daily Mirror specialising in crime, terrorism and foreign affairs.
    Others too
    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...-dead-animals/

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/468842...-dead-animals/


    Well then more fool you
    The grey squirrel is an invasive alien species which both carries disease lethal to the native Red & has a taste for bird eggs, it's little more than a rat with a bushy tail.
    You could add that shot in the head is an instant kill, but they flap about just like a chicken with its head cut off.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy001 View Post
    The squirrel page,

    We have been contacted by the Express & the Mirror for comment on a story they say they'll be publishing tomorrow. We haven't given them an official response. It seems pointless because its blatantly obvious its going to be negative sensationalism by the tabloids. We did suggest that we may comment if they gave us some money....its gone quiet up till now ! ;-)


    Mirror has followed it up! Do they get paid per article!
    I am absolutely bloody speechless...

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldbean View Post
    Surely this is a lesson to us all to keep a low profile and go about our affairs "below the parapet"

    There are too many bleeding hearts wanting to ban anything to do with hunting so dont put anything on this social media thingy that could be considered as contravershal .
    Knitting with sharp needles will be banned next.
    Nooooo!!!

    Sorry mate but we really need to be standing up more. Terry and the other chaps are correct that we complain to the tabloids and the PCC directly. If only 5% of the members on here did that then they would need to sit up and take notice.

    I've complained directly to the DM and raised a PCC form.
    Chairman Emley Moor F.T.C. 2023 - Misfits champ, HFT extreme champ, NEFTA hunter champ, Midlands Hunter champ, UKAHFT champ.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenbacker View Post
    I am absolutely bloody speechless...
    So am I. I can't believe that anyone would have the blatant stupidity to put so much fuel for the anti hunting campaigners on social media. I really do wish that these neanderthal types would consider playing chicken on the motorway instead.
    You can spend thousands and still miss a barn door or spend just enough and enjoy yourself. If you haven't got the talent to start with a million pound won't fix it. Whippet, Russell, a few bang sticks and a flat cap. http://www.smart-tech1st.co.uk

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldbean View Post
    Surely this is a lesson to us all to keep a low profile and go about our affairs "below the parapet"

    There are too many bleeding hearts wanting to ban anything to do with hunting so dont put anything on this social media thingy that could be considered as controversial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    What ever the rights and wrongs of the media, we all have to live in modern times so does not anyone here think that posting pictures like those on the internet facebook or whatever that looks like airgunners are enjoying killing animals is bonkers, so why would anyone want to post pictures like that instead of shooters of all ages and disabled having safe fun competing in competition and plinking without doing any real harm.
    If airgunning don't change its image it may not have a long term future in modern times
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Edge View Post
    So am I. I can't believe that anyone would have the blatant stupidity to put so much fuel for the anti hunting campaigners on social media. I really do wish that these neanderthal types would consider playing chicken on the motorway instead.
    I wonder if these comments have some merit.

    I posted recently on the legislation thread about idiotic behaviour with air rifles and Phil felt he had to delete it as we don't want to give the antis any real ammunition. I respect that point of view and have no problem with Phil doing what he feels he needs to do.

    I do wonder, as a community, if we need to be sensible and have some sort of rules as to how we want airgunners in the UK portrayed.

    I was posting on the legislation thread on behalf of decent airgunners who may have mental health issues and the fears that some of them may fall foul of a licensing system. I mention that because I was making the point that we need to stick together and don't segregate, as that may make us weaker.

    However, I do wonder if we need to make the point that the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK go about their hobby safely and sensibly. Youngsters warned of dangers and trained accordingly, pests controlled but in a manner that tries to ensure a clean kill and minimises wounding and suffering, a lot of well organised target shooting including a lot of fund raising for worthwhile charities. Also, to add that any idiotic behaviour with air rifles that may cause concern to the public, damage to property or God forbid personal injury is abhorred by the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK. Probably more so than non airgunners as it threatens the sport that we love. I think we probably have to include in that hunters who like to brag about taking shots at animals from extreme ranges or through thick branches etc. Let's be honest, when a thread appears on here and someone starts talking about taking head shots at 60 yards they are often shouted down, and told that hunting should be limited to a range where the risk of wounding is minimised. So I'm not inventing this attitude.

    Maybe ... just maybe ... this may ask questions as to whether it's clever posting hunting kill pics up all over the internet. I'm not going as far as saying that no hunting pics should be posted, either in the mags or online. I think there is a massive difference ( image portrayed wise ) between a sensibly written hunting article talking about equipment and tactics used, maybe even a photo showing the shot quarry ( never floated my boat to be honest ... I know what a rabbit or a squirrel looks like ... so I'm sure I know what a dead one lying on the floor looks like ), and an article with comments like " ... and FIZZ THWACK, 14gr of BYE BYE hit home with a satisfying thud ", accompanied by some guy in camo, with a big grin on his face, holding up quarry with blood on it's head. Is there a difference between controlling a pest with it's welfare in mind, and holding it's corpse up with a big grin on your face? Is there a difference between how that comes across to non shooting members of the public?

    This isn't going to be a battle we can win by making a big noise about it. The Scots found that out. There aren't enough of us Vs them I'm afraid. I hate to use this sickening phrase but this a ... Hearts and Minds campaign.

    Just look at what has been happening regarding all the terrorist attacks. There's been a big hearts and minds campaign going on there now for some time. Whenever there is an attack by someone believed to be Muslim, the radio and TV are quickly bombarded by interviews with local Muslim leaders, all condemning the actions of the few that are committing atrocities and claiming to be doing it in the name of Islam. They are basically saying ... This isn't a representation of all of us ... we condemn what these few people are doing too.

    I think we need to be doing a similar thing. I don't think it does us any favours pretending that no one does anything stupid with an air rifle. I think we should be saying that we know a minority do some pretty stupid things with air rifles but it is a very small minority and the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK despise and condemn what they are doing. That greatest majority includes many many hunters who get the job done with the animal's welfare in mind, by buying the correct equipment and training and practising how to use it, so that any suffering is minimised or eliminated.

    Where you draw the line re blooded kills being held up for display, with the hunter grinning like he's just won the Post Code Lottery, I just don't know. I can't see how that is ever going to shine a bright light upon us.

    The fact is ... the papers aren't posting articles about target comps that have just made money for hospices. They aren't saying what a great job airgunners do controlling vermin. They are feeding the hippo by showing graphic photos that will stir great hatred in a massive percentage of the public ( dead animal covered in blood being held up whilst a camo clad airgunner smiles ). You couldn't make it more antagonising if you tried. If you sat down and tried to design an anti airgun poster ... you simply couldn't do any better than that. Why would we want to do that?

  8. #53
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    more amo for the tree huggers

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    If that's aimed at my post above then you are seriously missing the point.

    If you think we can all sit on our internet sites and pretend every airgunner is Mr Wonderful, and when they aren't doing lovely things with air rifles they are helping out down the local hospice or reading to sick Granny, then I think it's deranged.

    All the public see is articles in the press about what a bunch of idiots airgunners are. We are now providing them with photos ourselves. You don't need a tree hugger or newspaper photographer hiding in a bush grabbing sneaky shots. You just go onto some airgun sites and download the photos we've provided for them.

    They have all the evidence they need, or at least enough to arouse the public against us. I think we need to stop this ... Shhh ... don't mention naughty things about air rifles on the BBS or other boards, because we are providing evidence for those that sneakily take a peek in here. We need to be saying ... Yes ... we know that stuff goes on ... we condemn it on here every time it's mentioned. It's not what the majority of us do. We want it stamped out as much as others do.

    We can't sit in here and not mention it and hope that no one notices because we didn't mention it on the BBS when their are sites with photos all over them ... that have already been published by several newspapers.

    Do you want to say ...

    Yup ... that's a fair representation of us ... UK airgunners ... cropped heads ... camo coats ... blowing heads of wildlife and laughing about it ... now **** off and let us get on with it because we aren't going to change,

    ( That's what the papers are saying for you whilst we smile on here and don't talk about it )

    Or ... No that's not a fair representation of UK airgunners ... yes plenty of people hunt but we do it responsibly and with respect for the quarry, even though that quarry is vermin that needs to be reduced in numbers.

    Say it ... say it on here. Say it is only a small minority and the greatest majority don't like it. Don't hush it up on here as if it doesn't happen. They know it happens ... read your papers.

    I'm not just on about the hunting photos in the press ... I'm on about the other stuff as well. If we've heard about it and start discussing it on here ... the press and public will already have heard about it ... that's why we are discussing it. So we aren't preventing the public from knowing about it by not talking about it on here. So we may as well discuss it and show a decent angle from our side rather than just being all hush hush about it.
    Last edited by bozzer; 16-10-2017 at 09:14 AM.

  10. #55
    secretagentmole Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by bozzer View Post
    I wonder if these comments have some merit.

    I posted recently on the legislation thread about idiotic behaviour with air rifles and Phil felt he had to delete it as we don't want to give the antis any real ammunition. I respect that point of view and have no problem with Phil doing what he feels he needs to do.

    I do wonder, as a community, if we need to be sensible and have some sort of rules as to how we want airgunners in the UK portrayed.

    I was posting on the legislation thread on behalf of decent airgunners who may have mental health issues and the fears that some of them may fall foul of a licensing system. I mention that because I was making the point that we need to stick together and don't segregate, as that may make us weaker.

    However, I do wonder if we need to make the point that the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK go about their hobby safely and sensibly. Youngsters warned of dangers and trained accordingly, pests controlled but in a manner that tries to ensure a clean kill and minimises wounding and suffering, a lot of well organised target shooting including a lot of fund raising for worthwhile charities. Also, to add that any idiotic behaviour with air rifles that may cause concern to the public, damage to property or God forbid personal injury is abhorred by the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK. Probably more so than non airgunners as it threatens the sport that we love. I think we probably have to include in that hunters who like to brag about taking shots at animals from extreme ranges or through thick branches etc. Let's be honest, when a thread appears on here and someone starts talking about taking head shots at 60 yards they are often shouted down, and told that hunting should be limited to a range where the risk of wounding is minimised. So I'm not inventing this attitude.

    Maybe ... just maybe ... this may ask questions as to whether it's clever posting hunting kill pics up all over the internet. I'm not going as far as saying that no hunting pics should be posted, either in the mags or online. I think there is a massive difference ( image portrayed wise ) between a sensibly written hunting article talking about equipment and tactics used, maybe even a photo showing the shot quarry ( never floated my boat to be honest ... I know what a rabbit or a squirrel looks like ... so I'm sure I know what a dead one lying on the floor looks like ), and an article with comments like " ... and FIZZ THWACK, 14gr of BYE BYE hit home with a satisfying thud ", accompanied by some guy in camo, with a big grin on his face, holding up quarry with blood on it's head. Is there a difference between controlling a pest with it's welfare in mind, and holding it's corpse up with a big grin on your face? Is there a difference between how that comes across to non shooting members of the public?

    This isn't going to be a battle we can win by making a big noise about it. The Scots found that out. There aren't enough of us Vs them I'm afraid. I hate to use this sickening phrase but this a ... Hearts and Minds campaign.

    Just look at what has been happening regarding all the terrorist attacks. There's been a big hearts and minds campaign going on there now for some time. Whenever there is an attack by someone believed to be Muslim, the radio and TV are quickly bombarded by interviews with local Muslim leaders, all condemning the actions of the few that are committing atrocities and claiming to be doing it in the name of Islam. They are basically saying ... This isn't a representation of all of us ... we condemn what these few people are doing too.

    I think we need to be doing a similar thing. I don't think it does us any favours pretending that no one does anything stupid with an air rifle. I think we should be saying that we know a minority do some pretty stupid things with air rifles but it is a very small minority and the greatest majority of airgunners in the UK despise and condemn what they are doing. That greatest majority includes many many hunters who get the job done with the animal's welfare in mind, by buying the correct equipment and training and practising how to use it, so that any suffering is minimised or eliminated.

    Where you draw the line re blooded kills being held up for display, with the hunter grinning like he's just won the Post Code Lottery, I just don't know. I can't see how that is ever going to shine a bright light upon us.

    The fact is ... the papers aren't posting articles about target comps that have just made money for hospices. They aren't saying what a great job airgunners do controlling vermin. They are feeding the hippo by showing graphic photos that will stir great hatred in a massive percentage of the public ( dead animal covered in blood being held up whilst a camo clad airgunner smiles ). You couldn't make it more antagonising if you tried. If you sat down and tried to design an anti airgun poster ... you simply couldn't do any better than that. Why would we want to do that?
    Make the complainants work in a halal or kosher abbatoir for a week....

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by secretagentmole View Post
    Make the complainants work in a halal or kosher abbatoir for a week....
    My thoughts as well

    Boz does make some salient points though about the portrayal we give to the public. Professional, calm pest control can be argued quite well but a (IMHO) OTT public FB page is just asking for trouble. I find this a bit tricky as shooters should be allowed to carry out permissible pest control without the fear of vilification.

    I would be interested to hear Si Pittaways views on this.
    Chairman Emley Moor F.T.C. 2023 - Misfits champ, HFT extreme champ, NEFTA hunter champ, Midlands Hunter champ, UKAHFT champ.
    https://sites.google.com/site/emleymoorftc/contact-us

  12. #57
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    " Where you draw the line re blooded kills being held up for display, with the hunter grinning like he's just won the Post Code Lottery, I just don't know. I can't see how that is ever going to shine a bright light upon us."

    I want to know exactly what percentage of air gun owners actually do shoot animals/pests ? I no longer do and I doubt if the number is that many infact. The problem is that due to the exposure on virtual media they are much more in the face.

    A.G

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    Quote Originally Posted by secretagentmole View Post
    Make the complainants work in a halal or kosher abbatoir for a week....
    Moley

    Let me make this clear ... I'm not saying the press or the complainants are right.

    I'm saying this stuff hurts us and we have to make a decision whether we hold firm and shove a finger up to the complainants, or whether we say to our community ... Folks, we have to be careful what we post up on the internet for our own good. I'm never going to tell someone they shouldn't hunt with an airgun. I do think they should get on with the job within certain guidelines. That'll be buying the right kit ... learning how to use it ... minimise suffering ... and ask where the thrill is in glorifying the kills.

    This public ... strange folk. They all enjoy their bacon butties. They don't all want to see a graphic video from a normal abattoir showing how we kill and butcher little piggies.

    If we want to protect our sport we need to play the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lensman57 View Post
    " Where you draw the line re blooded kills being held up for display, with the hunter grinning like he's just won the Post Code Lottery, I just don't know. I can't see how that is ever going to shine a bright light upon us."

    I want to know exactly what percentage of air gun owners actually do shoot animals/pests ? I no longer do and I doubt if the number is that many infact. The problem is that due to the exposure on virtual media they are much more in the face.

    A.G
    Lensman

    I'm probably heading towards posts being deleted here.

    Ask yourself why the mags have a lot of articles on hunting ... often showing camo clad guys wandering around woods, and with dead quarry photos ( no where near as graphic as the ones in the DM ).

    The mags know that a decent percentage of people either already hunt or may fancy a go at hunting with air rifles.

    I've been shooting for 40 years ( add another 10 shooting my brother's rifles up the garden ). I've known loads of people have a go at air rifle shooting. The greatest majority of them have bought an air rifle to go hunting. Not all of them stuck at it for too long.

    If I'm honest, I reckon if you had a photo of someone sitting on a cushion, in a gimp suit, holding 3 grand's worth of target rifle and scope shooting Field Target in a wood ... or a cropped headed guy in camo holding a tactical rifle and a shot rabbit, I could tell you which one of those photos will get more people walking into a gun shop and asking to buy an air rifle.

    There's nothing wrong with that. We need the hunters. I don't think we need the attention that the glorifying kill photos bring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
    Nooooo!!!

    Sorry mate but we really need to be standing up more. Terry and the other chaps are correct that we complain to the tabloids and the PCC directly. If only 5% of the members on here did that then they would need to sit up and take notice.

    I've complained directly to the DM and raised a PCC form.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Edge View Post
    So am I. I can't believe that anyone would have the blatant stupidity to put so much fuel for the anti hunting campaigners on social media. I really do wish that these neanderthal types would consider playing chicken on the motorway instead.
    Even though the above posts place the blame at opposite ends, both are equally correct.

    The mail article was pathetic ill informed journalistic diarrhoea, of the worst kind,
    but the people who put those pictures up on farcebook in the first place can't have the brains they were born with.

    I shoot pests/vermin & have done for 40odd years, but I've never felt the need for gloating pictures & can't understand why people do .

    Lensman I seem to remember Terry saying better than 70% of his readers hunt.

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