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Thread: New air arms break barrel rifle

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Because of the massive costs in setup and getting to market. 11 people on an internet forum somewhere isn't going to cover it.
    Spot on.

    AA have a finite capacity at their factory, in both personnel and machines. What do they stop making in order to produce something that for most shooters would not justify the necessary price required to recover costs and make a worthwhile margin.
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  2. #77
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    Others can manage to provide a break barrel in there range, so why can't AA ? are they to small a manufacturer ?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    One market poorly addressed is the youth, small people's, market.
    Perfectly addressed by the HW30s - also much loved by older, bigger people...

  4. #79
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    people don't want to shoot gimmicks, they want consistency and accuracy so the TX 200 does everything that can be asked of a boinger and for those that want a gimmicky boinger they can shoot the pro-sport. In my educated opinion the TX will outshoot anybody and can be tuned to such a degree that it is on par with a lot of PCP rifles. If you want break barrels then go for a weirhaurch break barrel or get a gammo if you're only throwing lead away.
    Does anyone know how to contact doughnuts Anonymous cos I just cant seem to give them up and may be a 0 addict

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpetier View Post
    Others can manage to provide a break barrel in there range, so why can't AA ? are they to small a manufacturer ?
    Don't see one in Daystates line up. Probably for good reason, as they struggle with their PCP's!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A View Post
    I don't think it was because Webley had some nice looking break barrel rifles that they went bust... I don't know the full details, but i'm sure many factors were involved, including the restrictions on selling online, the recession that happened around the same time etc etc. Lots of UK manufacturers have gone under through no real fault of their own.
    It's complicated, but basically the Omega was a great rifle by 1979 standards, only it came out in 1984. The Tomahawk and Longbow would have been world-beaters any time before about 1988, but came out in 2000 and 2002. There were other underlying issues about Webley's business that meant it was on borrowed time since at least 1970 and arguably the 1920s.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Because of the massive costs in setup and getting to market. 11 people on an internet forum somewhere isn't going to cover it.
    Yes. This.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyL View Post
    Looking at Air Arms' huge sponsorship commitments at many events and the attendance of their top people too, like Claire West, I'd say that airguns and our sport are well and truly in the company's blood, Pete.
    The old saying "speculate to accumulate" comes to mind and they are showing their faces at events to help sell more, like I said at the end of the day they have staff and bills to pay and nice cars to run, so they manufacture on the safe side to make sure that all happens, if they did want to properly commit and listen to their customers then they would bring out a break barrel, a left handed Prosport, make the Prosport cocking lever out of some other material and get rid of the wanky fishscale checkering, all the gripes everyone have been moaning about for the past few years, believe me I don't want or like to complain about one of my favorite British manufacturers but like what a lot of people have said they are not fully delivering to the faithful who worship the HFT ground they walk on and I can see why people do buy HWs instead.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    I wont be buying a 99.
    I certainly have the ability to fix a 99 but just wont on principle.
    Neither would I buy any new product knowing it needed work to make it operate as it should.
    The 99 is a cheap rifle and no matter how much money i could spend on it , it wont give me what I want.
    The only thing that appeals to me about the 99 are its proportions

    In fact, the 99 has the best anti tamper system ever designed.
    It has to be stripped and worked on or it will eat itself. The minute it's stripped, any guarantee is up the swannee. Its actually a master stroke in marketing. Herman is laughing all the way to the bank
    Totally agree.

    The thing is why are they still sending them out like they are, what it really needed was everyone who bought one in the first place to return them for fixing and then they would have soon properly fixed the problem when their profit margins got hit but as long as the lemmings keep buying them and fixing them themselves then they will keep churning them out as they are.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

  9. #84
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    Webley like so many companies were strapped for cash, taxed to buggery, had poor management, were relying on dated machinery, and in old buildings. No investment, no dynamism, and relying on pile it high sell it cheep.
    Manufacturing in the 70's was in decline for good reason, and the work force on the dole.

    Much was lack of realising what the market wanted and only begrudgingly providing anything much at all. To sum up just look at the triggers.


    Anyhow, AA know what they do well.
    FWB brought out their Sport last year but still failed to give something as desirable as their old one! That was a clanger!
    Speculate to accumulate is fine if you are making good profits and tax burden isn't extortionate. Think its the case most UK gun makers, after the initial investment, just about hang in there. No wriggle room to make a whopping mistake.
    A little springer with all the "improvements" is a risk if its going to better whats already out there.

    HW30? Did they always have a Rekcord trigger? Whatever I bought and sold a few years back didn't; skinny barrel too. Think they have made some changes??? Think the 99 a better bet?? Thankfully, I'm not in the market for one.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    The pro elite is a dinosaur introduced in the heyday where power was king. Take away its massive power potential (same design but smaller) and a very good quality sub 12 break barrel appears. The pro elite was a big money rifle. I bought my last one one in 2001 from CH Weston aat a cost of almost £400.
    I have fond memories of the PE and wish I'd never sold my last one as it was a top quality rifle but way away from what is actually needed. Quality though is far in excess of anything produced by Herman.

    I wish mine had been that cheap! £425 to buy it - but already with CS800 stock, then a further £390 for a Lyn Lewington 25mm conversion and Colin Molloy refurb/reblue. Now it is gorgeous, sboots like my hw30s and puts out full power. Love it, but it's presently being treated a too precious for day-to-day. Heavy old bugger as well: that bullbarrel makes it very front-heavy😲😰


    .
    Jerry

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by les allam View Post
    I got my .22 Pro/elite for £220 from Youngmans when they went out of production.
    My P/e's have both been worked on by Steve pope at v-Mach and did not require the breech shim conversion, that my Hw80 and 98 had done. It was not needed on the P/e due to being a great set up .
    The breech shims on the hw guns have room for improvement so Steve recommend,s is bigger shims.
    I can't comment on the Diana breech.
    Les..
    I not sure right now but I seem to remember the PE advertised in a old airgunworld I have for just under £200

    I have been looking at the PE diagram and it looks like the shims that you mention look like two top hats that go in the barrel block holding the detent, it must be the immune to wear replaceable bushes that FPoole was talking about in post 39, but this means that although the barrel block would not wear the breech jaws would, Does anyone have any info about this as I have maintained in the past that Diana has the best breech/hinge setup but I am not familiar with the PE

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    I not sure right now but I seem to remember the PE advertised in a old airgunworld I have for just under £200
    I remember the advert as well and I'm sure one of the guys who wrote in the mag also done a review of the rifle at that price saying it was the bargain of the century.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by look no hands View Post
    I remember the advert as well and I'm sure one of the guys who wrote in the mag also done a review of the rifle at that price saying it was the bargain of the century.

    Pete
    If anybody has a copy of said article - I would love to get my hands on it (see my signature)

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by look no hands View Post
    The old saying "speculate to accumulate" comes to mind and they are showing their faces at events to help sell more, like I said at the end of the day they have staff and bills to pay and nice cars to run, so they manufacture on the safe side to make sure that all happens, if they did want to properly commit and listen to their customers then they would bring out a break barrel, a left handed Prosport, make the Prosport cocking lever out of some other material and get rid of the wanky fishscale checkering, all the gripes everyone have been moaning about for the past few years, believe me I don't want or like to complain about one of my favorite British manufacturers but like what a lot of people have said they are not fully delivering to the faithful who worship the HFT ground they walk on and I can see why people do buy HWs instead.

    Pete
    Pete there’s no doubt about AAs commitment. You only have to see Claire at the events talking to shooters weekend in and out to see that.
    But you aren’t going to see changes that a tiny % are mentioning out of the stacks of rifles they sell every day which would affect current lines and stock which is selling just fine anyway.

    When we ran the April fools Claire said her line rang off the hook for two days solid. We had something like 10,000 reactions online to it across various media. But that’s it. 10,000 likes on forums etc doesn’t translate into 10,000 sales, more like 100 at best. And 2 days leaves 363 other days in the year.

    Hft and ft are big sports as far as shooting goes but compared to what the average joe shoots and buys day in and day out they aren’t.

    Honda didn’t get where it was making 900cc superbikes. It got there selling millions of c50 step throughs. And in the same way race bikes are only a relative of what are used on the street you wouldn’t doubt Hondas commitment because the fire blade doesn’t exactly fit your idea of how Marc Marquezs bike should be replicated. The chequering on a stock which most ft shooters don’t use is really of no concern.

    If the things weren’t selling they’d change it. Or they’d remove it. The fact that it hasn’t changed and is being sold still suggests AA are quite happy that the level of tweaking the internet wants isn’t justified. And if it was I think you’d see a 3rd party offering a choice first.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    Pete there’s no doubt about AAs commitment. You only have to see Claire at the events talking to shooters weekend in and out to see that.
    But you aren’t going to see changes that a tiny % are mentioning out of the stacks of rifles they sell every day which would affect current lines and stock which is selling just fine anyway.

    When we ran the April fools Claire said her line rang off the hook for two days solid. We had something like 10,000 reactions online to it across various media. But that’s it. 10,000 likes on forums etc doesn’t translate into 10,000 sales, more like 100 at best. And 2 days leaves 363 other days in the year.

    Hft and ft are big sports as far as shooting goes but compared to what the average joe shoots and buys day in and day out they aren’t.

    Honda didn’t get where it was making 900cc superbikes. It got there selling millions of c50 step throughs. And in the same way race bikes are only a relative of what are used on the street you wouldn’t doubt Hondas commitment because the fire blade doesn’t exactly fit your idea of how Marc Marquezs bike should be replicated. The chequering on a stock which most ft shooters don’t use is really of no concern.

    If the things weren’t selling they’d change it. Or they’d remove it. The fact that it hasn’t changed and is being sold still suggests AA are quite happy that the level of tweaking the internet wants isn’t justified. And if it was I think you’d see a 3rd party offering a choice first.
    Rob I totally agree what you and Tony are saying and I see where you are coming from, I don't doubt their commitment to the shooting sport at all and I've seen them many a time in the past giving rifles and gear away as prizes FOC to events, basically I'm backing up what you're saying, what I'm trying to explain is that the concerns and wants from the very tiny proportion of shooters (the ones who want a lefty PS and a steel PS underlever and a break barrel) are going on deaf ears because of the costs involved for very little gain and potential risk to the company (which I totally understand and wouldn't want them to make) BUT if they were fully 110% committed then they would offer the products but they don't need to, as like you say the rifles are flying off the shelves (a good thing to see in this current climate), now I'm totally happy with everything the PS has to offer (it could do with being a bit lighter but if that's going to upset it's excellent firing cycle then I'll leave it as it is) I've never had a problem with the alloy underlever and I'm not a freak of nature so don't require a lefty stock but the fishtail checkering could be changed at the press of a button and at no cost due to it being laser cut, I think the new skipline checkering on the PS stocks is beautiful.

    At the end of the day if somebody like Tony Leach (our old compadre Bigtoe) was running the company then we'd see the changes and also have the 25mm short stroke internals (or smaller knowing him) back in the UK models as he would be pushing the envelope as far as he could and would want to see the customer get what they wanted.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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