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Thread: New air arms break barrel rifle

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    HW99S for £200! Plinking and farmyard a plenty, then how is anyone going to compete with that? The next level up is over £300.
    AA TX or Sport all walnutted up is three times that price. We know why. We know at these weights the spring system can deliver and compete with a PCP within certain limits. A break barrel brings their own particular problems and few would pay the premium for a rifle that wasn't able to print pellets as fine as underlevers.

    Basically, break barrels are fast and fun, but keep them within farmyard ranges to deliver. I love them and if I want to go further grab something else... usually a .22LR or .17 HMR. For Air Rifle target disciplines then no one would choose a break barrel. For plinking great fun they few can beat them, but would the market pay £500?? Don't think so.
    I disagree about the problems with break barrel bit.
    I have a vmach sleeved hw80 and a AA pro elite - both are every bit as a accurate as any of my fixed barrel rifles. As long as they are maintained and cared for in the correct manner.

  2. #32
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    Had a BSF S70. Almost the proportion of a Vulcan MKI or Annie 335. Full power, lovely build, but being full power it was struggling as you could tell a lot was going on.

    American market demands power, though for garden plinking fun why? Testing ballistics, wind and marksmanship then 12ft/lbs does it...trouble is it too hard for most. Heck we see the .17HMR take .22LR ground because .17HMR is just easy. People like flat shooting, high velocity, to get over the tricky stuff.


    There is a whole lot of competition out there. Either a company needs deep pockets or not make an expensive mistake. However, stand still and you will be left behind. But make an appealing rifle that delivers and do it well enough and that should give a solid base to continue. AA certainly have some very desirable rifles that they do very well indeed; premium desirable products. We have just seen Theoben shut its doors, I for one don't want another UK manufacturer to follow. I presume AA know what they are doing.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    Had a BSF S70. Almost the proportion of a Vulcan MKI or Annie 335. Full power, lovely build, but being full power it was struggling as you could tell a lot was going on.

    American market demands power, though for garden plinking fun why? Testing ballistics, wind and marksmanship then 12ft/lbs does it...trouble is it too hard for most. Heck we see the .17HMR take .22LR ground because .17HMR is just easy. People like flat shooting, high velocity, to get over the tricky stuff.


    There is a whole lot of competition out there. Either a company needs deep pockets or not make an expensive mistake. However, stand still and you will be left behind. But make an appealing rifle that delivers and do it well enough and that should give a solid base to continue. AA certainly have some very desirable rifles that they do very well indeed; premium desirable products. We have just seen Theoben shut its doors, I for one don't want another UK manufacturer to follow. I presume AA know what they are doing.

    I don't disagree with any of that. I just thought the break barrel comment was off the mark.

  4. #34
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    The inherent problem with break barrel rifles is their barrel return to battery and the stresses placed on the barrels. Barrels bend and hinge systems wear. I shoot break barrels far more than lever, always have. Some I have got to tack drive... for a while. My underlevers have stayed constant far more easily, rare to have any issue whatsoever.

    Some time ago I gave up on Theoben break barrels because I had banana'rd too many barrels. Can be straightened but its not easy. I lent my Fenman out the other month and its barrel came back bent. The fact is a lot more can go wrong, and if it can it will. Doesn't stop me enjoying them, and they remain my first choice.

    Ae people going to pay a high premium for a break barrel? Pull power or FAC power? Well would take a stiffer barrel to start. And there are some out there like the HW80.
    Last edited by Muskett; 18-10-2017 at 09:27 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by charub View Post
    I disagree about the problems with break barrel bit.
    I have a vmach sleeved hw80 and a AA pro elite - both are every bit as a accurate as any of my fixed barrel rifles. As long as they are maintained and cared for in the correct manner.
    I totally agree with charub regarding b/ barrel accuracy and performance,I also have the Pro/ elite and hw80 and Webley Tomahawk glided with reduced cylinder conversion and they are as accurate as my tx200 and then some.All guns great out to 60 yards if I do my bit.
    Les..

  6. #36
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    No dout when done right they can tackdrive. Heck some of mine do. But they are harder to shoot and more to go wrong.
    Given a factory or basic tune break barrel or the same in a fixed barrel and the latter will "keep it there" longer. They probably have the same barrel fitted.
    Last edited by Muskett; 18-10-2017 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #37
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    I asked the same question via their contact address some months ago and encouraged others on here to do so too. I never heard anything.

    Unfortunately, although they produce a couple of great springers they have long stopped innovating. Maybe that double cylinder thing put them off.

    There is so much innovation now in the airgun market, FX, Edgun, steyr etc.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by les allam View Post
    I totally agree with charub regarding b/ barrel accuracy and performance,I also have the Pro/ elite and hw80 and Webley Tomahawk glided with reduced cylinder conversion and they are as accurate as my tx200 and then some.All guns great out to 60 yards if I do my bit.
    Les..
    I agree with Muskett because even though a break barrel might be as accurate as a fixed barrel they wont stay like it long term because the barrel hinges every shot this means that the hinge bolt, shims and what ever stops the barrel when closing must wear in time, if you have a break barrel without barrel droop or rise one day it will have rise and not only will the accuracy change the transfer port bore alignment will change, it will take a lot of use though

    Although break barrels are fast and fun and we like them, fixed barrels are the ultimate springer

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    I agree with Muskett because even though a break barrel might be as accurate as a fixed barrel they wont stay like it long term because the barrel hinges every shot this means that the hinge bolt, shims and what ever stops the barrel when closing must wear in time, if you have a break barrel without barrel droop or rise one day it will have rise and not only will the accuracy change the transfer port bore alignment will change, it will take a lot of use though

    Although break barrels are fast and fun and we like them, fixed barrels are the ultimate springer
    The Pro Elite was immune to wear in the hinge area as it had replaceable bushes. They were driven into the breech block and were large with thick side flanges as well. The chisel detent was also very consistent with a large hardened pin that ran across the breech jaws below the breech block. There was a groove in the block that lined up with this pin and this was the stop. I shot my FAC .22 PE 15,000 times in one year, and I only adjusted the barrel tension after the first couple of tins. It stayed where I put it after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FPoole View Post
    The Pro Elite was immune to wear in the hinge area as it had replaceable bushes. They were driven into the breech block and were large with thick side flanges as well. The chisel detent was also very consistent with a large hardened pin that ran across the breech jaws below the breech block. There was a groove in the block that lined up with this pin and this was the stop. I shot my FAC .22 PE 15,000 times in one year, and I only adjusted the barrel tension after the first couple of tins. It stayed where I put it after that.
    Yes the PE is one of the best break barrels perhaps the best but the fact that it has replaceable bushes means BBs wear and change with time unlike fixed barrels.
    Im not sure any other break barrel can boast what you mention about the PE.

  11. #41
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    The bushings in the PE are some sort of bronze at a guess. When my gun was brand new, I didn't bother adjusting as I figured they needed to break in and seat themselves to the sides of the ears on the receiver. I then took the barrel off, which is very easy on the PE due to the removable linkage pin, and cleaned and lubed with 77% moly content grease. Adjusted and it stayed tight as a bank vault until the Field Target bug bit me hard. I had to have a TX for this and the .177 and .22 PE's had to go to fund more and more old abused TX's. I will say that the TX is even more robust than a PE or any break barrel for that matter. An HW80 is a flimsy thing up beside a TX200(I owned an 80 for 20 years, so I speak from experience).

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by charub View Post
    I disagree about the problems with break barrel bit.
    I have a vmach sleeved hw80 and a AA pro elite - both are every bit as a accurate as any of my fixed barrel rifles. As long as they are maintained and cared for in the correct manner.
    I have to agree with you regarding the Pro elite quote, I had a .22 a few years ago and on a 30 yard range with a crappy Chinese scope on it and only fired two shots, both pellets went through the same hole (as well as the following shots) and that was the first time I had ever used the rifle as I had just traded in a rifle against it in a gun shop I was passing on the way to the range, I honestly thought the second shot had gone off target, excellent rifle (apart from it's weight and length) and stunning accuracy.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

  13. #43
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    lets not get on the wrong track with the break barrel thing. The primary use of a break barrel is a field rifle. Whatever wear in the lockup may occur would only likely manifest itself years down the line.
    What I was originally getting at was the production of a break barrel (hunter) more suited in size and performance to the UK sub 12 limit.
    It would need to be smaller and lighter than the pro elite, 80 and such or definitely not worth producing as that market is already well serviced.

    Its a real shame that a British manufacturer is ignoring the needs of shooters in this country but I do get why.

    A break barrel rifle with the design but scaled down proportions of the pro elite would be a wonder of a rifle and i genuinely dont think it will happen, just wish it would.
    i suppose ill have to buy a fenman and convert it to a springer
    B.A.S.C. member

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    i suppose ill have to buy a fenman and convert it to a springer
    Noooooooooooooo...

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by threelander View Post
    Whats wrong with the 99 apart from the cocking arm issue which is a 5 minute job to make right and costs zero £.I know this should be done at the factory before everyone has a go but it isn,t and thats it
    absolutely bang on.

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