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Thread: New air arms break barrel rifle

  1. #61
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    Businesses should be prepared to take risks. If you stop innovating then sales will gradually wither. That said I can't see how a break barrel is a risk, its not like they would need much of an R&D budget to make one!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    The pro elite is a dinosaur introduced in the heyday where power was king. Take away its massive power potential (same design but smaller) and a very good quality sub 12 break barrel appears. The pro elite was a big money rifle. I bought my last one one in 2001 from CH Weston aat a cost of almost £400.
    I have fond memories of the PE and wish I'd never sold my last one as it was a top quality rifle but way away from what is actually needed. Quality though is far in excess of anything produced by Herman.
    I have owned and shot several examples of the PE and certainly didn't regard it as being made to a higher standard than the HW80. I looked seriously at buying a Venom tuned .177 PE but declined on the basis of both price and weight. It is important to judge both rifles on the basis of like for like- it is clearly unhelpful to compare a highly tuned example of one with a factory standard version of the other.
    Just looking at the basic offering I remain of the view that the PE is just too large and heavy for a 12 ft lb rifle. For FAC I personally prefer the HW80 or if higher power is really needed, the Theoben Eliminator.
    As for quality of build it is my understanding that several well known tuners in the USA refused to work on PE's as the cylinders just weren't concentric. I have never heard that said about the HW80.
    'It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others'.

  3. #63
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    Air arms behind the times

    hello, i ask them many years ago at a cirencester show and game fair almost the same thing but in PCP, fell on DEAF EARS as usual and NO CALL FOR THAT TYPE, then out came the COMPATTO, what did AA do, bring out the GALAHAD,

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskett View Post
    We are picking on AA for not producing a break barrel springer the size of a 99, and tuned to perfection as the 99 requires to be half good. A 99 shop price is £200 but then needs the cost of a tune. Even after tune they cannot match a big heavy underlever rifle for pure ease of consistency. Sure some people can get hem to shoot well, but most of the target market can't or will struggle.

    Thats a bit out of order in my book.

    I happen to have a highly tuned 95 and its lovely, but it doesn't do any better than my Fenman. Thats because if I do something wrong in hold both can throw a shot further than a head shot on a pigeon.
    Factory out of the box a AA TX or a HW77 style heavy will be less unforgiving. Anything light weight is going to struggle when they do throw a pellet off the group.
    Think I'm repeating myself.

    Anyhow, I agree with AA not to do something that isn't already well provided for. The things they do do they do well.
    you are talking about hold sensitivity. the 95 in .177 is dreadful for that. the 99s in either calibre is not at all hold sensitive. that is why it is a much better bet than the 95.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapidnick View Post
    I have owned and shot several examples of the PE and certainly didn't regard it as being made to a higher standard than the HW80. I looked seriously at buying a Venom tuned .177 PE but declined on the basis of both price and weight. It is important to judge both rifles on the basis of like for like- it is clearly unhelpful to compare a highly tuned example of one with a factory standard version of the other.
    Just looking at the basic offering I remain of the view that the PE is just too large and heavy for a 12 ft lb rifle. For FAC I personally prefer the HW80 or if higher power is really needed, the Theoben Eliminator.
    As for quality of build it is my understanding that several well known tuners in the USA refused to work on PE's as the cylinders just weren't concentric. I have never heard that said about the HW80.
    I wasnt comparing the PE to anything just stating that it was (as AA springers tend to be, a better quality overall package than germanic offerings). Stock design and fit being a big factor, finish on metalwork another. I had no issues with either of the cylinders on my PE's. The PE like other AA springers shots more like a tuned rifle.
    The out of round cylinders are definitely not unique to AA and I have personally had an 80 with this issue.

    Quality on HW springers has definitely dipped big time in the last 15 years at least. I don't think this is any secret.
    I won't be buying another HW springer new.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by look no hands View Post

    At the end of the day, if you want a 99 sized rifle then buy a 99 and spend a bit of cash on it to get it to the spec you want, there's plenty of people who will take your money to do so and whilst they are reworking it get them to put Air Arms on the cylinder

    Pete
    I wont be buying a 99.
    I certainly have the ability to fix a 99 but just wont on principle.
    Neither would I buy any new product knowing it needed work to make it operate as it should.
    The 99 is a cheap rifle and no matter how much money i could spend on it , it wont give me what I want.
    The only thing that appeals to me about the 99 are its proportions

    In fact, the 99 has the best anti tamper system ever designed.
    It has to be stripped and worked on or it will eat itself. The minute it's stripped, any guarantee is up the swannee. Its actually a master stroke in marketing. Herman is laughing all the way to the bank
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  7. #67
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    They aren't in the business of providing us with what we'd like.

    They feed the hippo to make profit.

    They noticed that HFT was popular and getting some press in the mags and internet sites etc. They spotted that a few thousand people shot HFT with a PCP. So they produce the HFT500 and flog it at a hefty price knowing that HFT PCP shooters will buy them. Nice little earner.

    There may be a few on here saying they'd like a lightweight 12fp AA break barrel. What will they have to sell them for and how much profit will they make? Probably little profit ... hence ... not happening.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bozzer View Post
    They aren't in the business of providing us with what we'd like.

    They feed the hippo to make profit.

    They noticed that HFT was popular and getting some press in the mags and internet sites etc. They spotted that a few thousand people shot HFT with a PCP. So they produce the HFT500 and flog it at a hefty price knowing that HFT PCP shooters will buy them. Nice little earner.

    There may be a few on here saying they'd like a lightweight 12fp AA break barrel. What will they have to sell them for and how much profit will they make? Probably little profit ... hence ... not happening.
    I agree with all that but just wonder why they dont seem to want a piece of that sector of the market.
    I guess springer development as far as the major manufacturers go has just ground to a halt.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by robs5230 View Post
    I agree with all that but just wonder why they dont seem to want a piece of that sector of the market.
    I guess springer development as far as the major manufacturers go has just ground to a halt.
    Because of the massive costs in setup and getting to market. 11 people on an internet forum somewhere isn't going to cover it.

  10. #70
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    Iinteresting thread, all the different options on break barrels

    When the PE was being discontinued they were going for a bargain price, but I went for the 80 I
    could have got got lucky and got a nice one and have a bit of airgun history.

    Has any PE owner compared the barrel hinge setup with a Diana? Is it better,if so why.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapidnick View Post
    I genuinely do not understand this worship of the Pro Elite. Even in FAC it is capable of only a little bit more power than the HW80 which is a better bet in virtually every way. In legal limit the PE is a great big lump and that is why it was a commercial failure and quite sensibly was withdrawn by AA.
    As I wrote before AA don't offer a break barrel because they consider that the market is well served in this segment. I know a lot of shooters on here like the 99 but quite a few don't so for them there is always the HW95. For those shooters harking back to a different age there are the lovely Webley Longbow (made in Birmingham) and the Theoben Fenman (which for me is possibly the best self contained legal limit general purpose air rifle ever made). Especially in .20.
    OK these are no longer made but there are plenty around for those of us who want one.
    Agree with most of that,HW nearly managed it with the MK1 HW85,it was almost a baby HW80.They could do with re-releasing this model without the raised scope rail & bring back the screw in trigger block.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barryg View Post
    Iinteresting thread, all the different options on break barrels

    When the PE was being discontinued they were going for a bargain price, but I went for the 80 I
    could have got got lucky and got a nice one and have a bit of airgun history.

    Has any PE owner compared the barrel hinge setup with a Diana? Is it better,if so why.
    I got my .22 Pro/elite for £220 from Youngmans when they went out of production.
    My P/e's have both been worked on by Steve pope at v-Mach and did not require the breech shim conversion, that my Hw80 and 98 had done. It was not needed on the P/e due to being a great set up .
    The breech shims on the hw guns have room for improvement so Steve recommend,s is bigger shims.
    I can't comment on the Diana breech.
    Les..

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telephonepete View Post
    you are talking about hold sensitivity. the 95 in .177 is dreadful for that. the 99s in either calibre is not at all hold sensitive. that is why it is a much better bet than the 95.
    My 95 isn't terrible, I suspect the shorter barrel 99 has the edge though. Possibly on centre of balance too. Certainly my 95 wants to shoot tight, just does it when given a certain hold; like many of my springers.

  14. #74
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    One market poorly addressed is the youth, small people's, market.
    Something proportionally like the BSA Cadet or Webley Vulcan MKI of old. Is the 99 that cute?
    Maybe if AA had spare capacity they might do something in the "small" break barrel department. Short stubby, forgiving, and classic. But at their build quality, even with great performance, could this market warrant the premium that an AA would have to demand? Some fathers might be willing to spend that on their children's kit??? Whatever a 99 with full tune costs....??

    There are many here who still have their childhood rifle.

    To me its proportions and good trigger, the latter always was missing.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by landymick View Post
    Agree with most of that,HW nearly managed it with the MK1 HW85,it was almost a baby HW80.They could do with re-releasing this model without the raised scope rail & bring back the screw in trigger block.
    Yep that would do it for me.
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