Information for sellers

[harvey_s]

Regarding the law. What if you buy off a private seller on evilbay and you don't receive the goods? I'm sure there is a way you can get your money back (via paypal if you use that method of payment). So if you buy a gun on here and use paypal to pay, I'm sure you should be covered and get your payment back off paypal. Or is it not covered if you send it "family and friends"?

I'm surprised this has come up given the amount of coverage its had on here...

PayPal does indeed cover the seller for egay purchases - BUT you cannot buy guns there and PayPal says you shouldn't use their service to purchase them privately - so they are specifically NOT covered.

If you send any money as a 'gift' to friends or family then its treated as that - i.e. you haven't bought goods or services therefore there is no comeback as there was nothing to get lost or broken

[LESS THAN FORTUITOUS KENNETH]

The seller is still the person who has done the posting. It is he who has the tracking info slip from the PO. It is his responsibility to chase it up as to why the parcel HE sent has not been delivered.. I can imagine the post office's reaction if the buyer rolled up with no proof of posting other than a scribbled tracking number! The receipt from the PO would be needed, and the seller has that.

[Rob Edge]

Good debate but lets agree to disagree not gonna rant on but the only consumer law that applies to private sales is "as described" and if some heavy handed numpty smashed your expensive rifle or whatever you wouldnt be pleased and as for the cost of fuel blah blah ....pshhhhh, if you want it go get it, if not dont.... the seller is not responsible for the buyers logistical problems

Remind me never to buy from you then. For your information you could still be sued if the goods where not as described or fit for purpose even if it was a private sale. It would be a civil case and would result in a CCJ.

[bighit]

Only skimmed through the thread.

Surely it's down to any agreement by the seller/buyer?

If someone is selling with posted as an option then they must have some responsibility to pack it well and do everything they can to make sure it arrives with the seller. They are offering posted in the original advert.

If someone is saying they prefer face to face but they will post and pack it well but it's at the buyer's risk, then that's then up to the buyer. If the buyer chooses to still buy the item and pay for post and it goes missing or arrives damaged, then surely it isn't right that the buyer then starts claiming that it's the seller's problem.

If someone advertises as face to face only, but gets pestered by a buyer to post it ( this happens ), then the buyer is having a laugh if they then want the seller to sort it out if it's gone missing.

I'd sell like that. Ad reads something like ... "Prefer face to face so the item can be checked over and tested". If a buyer contacted me and said they were very interested but insist that it's posted then I'd agree to that as long as they paid for the postage and accepted that it was being posted at their risk if it goes missing or gets damaged.

The seller does have to make an effort to pack it well and that can probably hit grey areas. I bought a camera off that bay place and it arrived loose in a plastic bag with the case cracked. Seller refused a refund as he claimed it was adequate and in good condition when he posted it.

im sure there was a post on here a number of years back where the seller posted a rifle in a BINBAG

[Rapidnick]

[QUOTE=bighit;7362781]all fine and good if it not 500 miles away . cheaper going RFD . that would be my option .

/QUOTE]

Wouldn't really help as how do you think an RFD in Manchester gets a rifle to an RFD in London? Answer: by post, generally PF48 and at your expense.
This topic comes up so many times with so many members on here objecting to posting. OK the postal service in the UK could be improved but the main obstacles appear to be the unwillingness of a seller- who incidentally pays NOTHING for the sales service here on the bbs- to put themselves out and 2) perceived worry that it will not arrive or will arrive damaged. The facts are-in my experience anyway-is that provided the item is properly packed it WILL arrive more or less to schedule. Of course items can arrive damaged but it really doesn't happen often.
I will continue to offer posting as an option but of course personal handover AND the opportunity to inspect/try out the item is preferable but not always practicable.

[bighit]

[QUOTE=Rapidnick;7363636]

all fine and good if it not 500 miles away . cheaper going RFD . that would be my option .

/QUOTE]

Wouldn't really help as how do you think an RFD in Manchester gets a rifle to an RFD in London? Answer: by post, generally PF48 and at your expense.
This topic comes up so many times with so many members on here objecting to posting. OK the postal service in the UK could be improved but the main obstacles appear to be the unwillingness of a seller- who incidentally pays NOTHING for the sales service here on the bbs- to put themselves out and 2) perceived worry that it will not arrive or will arrive damaged. The facts are-in my experience anyway-is that provided the item is properly packed it WILL arrive more or less to schedule. Of course items can arrive damaged but it really doesn't happen often.
I will continue to offer posting as an option but of course personal handover AND the opportunity to inspect/try out the item is preferable but not always practicable.

going RFD to RFD has more guarantees i'd assume ? more compensation.
they have different accounts than the public do.

and it would be boxed up their way and if they were a decent shop it would be boxed up well .

[LESS THAN FORTUITOUS KENNETH]

I'm surprised this has come up given the amount of coverage its had on here...

PayPal does indeed cover the seller for egay purchases - BUT you cannot buy guns there and PayPal says you shouldn't use their service to purchase them privately - so they are specifically NOT covered.

If you send any money as a 'gift' to friends or family then its treated as that - i.e. you haven't bought goods or services therefore there is no comeback as there was nothing to get lost or broken

Sorry for the confusion. When I was talking about buying off evilbay, I meant anything, not guns in particular.

[Rapidnick]

[QUOTE=bighit;7363699]

going RFD to RFD has more guarantees i'd assume ? more compensation.
they have different accounts than the public do.

and it would be boxed up their way and if they were a decent shop it would be boxed up well .

Any additional compensation would have to be paid for via insurance but I'm sure you are right that the item would be properly packed. For legal limit air rifles by using RFD to RFD all you are doing is increasing the cost of the item. Unnecessary in my view but all are free to differ. Speaking personally I wouldn't contemplate using a RFD for legal limit transfers.

[Squirrelking]

Because it's your property and you want to sell it... If you don't want to post it for this reason then don't - simple.

If you can find a buyer happy to waive their rights - that's fine too, PROVIDED you both have this clear understanding before any money is accepted.

Isn't that the exact same as "at buyers risk", exactly what people seem to have a problem with. And that's exactly what I said in the first place!

[Squirrelking]

Any additional compensation would have to be paid for via insurance but I'm sure you are right that the item would be properly packed. For legal limit air rifles by using RFD to RFD all you are doing is increasing the cost of the item. Unnecessary in my view but all are free to differ. Speaking personally I wouldn't contemplate using a RFD for legal limit transfers.

RFD's can also post PCP's as they will have the relevant dangerous goods training.

[rgc_swanseaARC]

Incorrect I’m afraid.
It’s pure offer and acceptance.
Accepting the offer makes it become a specific term of the contract.

Legislation would only apply if a term was not incorporated into the sellers terms of sale.

[piggy589]

im sure there was a post on here a number of years back where the seller posted a rifle in a BINBAG

I've received one wrapped in little more than a black bin liner,the muzzle actually protruding from the package.

Miraculously damage was confined to small scratches on the stock finish.

[CrystalPistal]

Remind me never to buy from you then. For your information you could still be sued if the goods where not as described or fit for purpose even if it was a private sale. It would be a civil case and would result in a CCJ.

Not a problem no need to be personal tho have sold several items to people who have been very pleased and yes they were packed as securely as possible but they were relatively low cost items, the Prosport is still in the rack because i wont post it and an Ultimate Sporter was sold FTF but you obviously have not read the entire thread i did say that the as described rule applies and if it gets damaged it will probably still be fit for purpose unless its a write off or lost and the thread starter did say about the "posted at buyers risk aspect" of your so called contract so if that was the contract why are people flaming other people for sticking to their agreed contract sheesh loads of contracts

[harvey_s]

Not a problem no need to be personal tho have sold several items to people who have been very pleased and yes they were packed as securely as possible but they were relatively low cost items, the Prosport is still in the rack because i wont post it and an Ultimate Sporter was sold FTF but you obviously have not read the entire thread i did say that the as described rule applies and if it gets damaged it will probably still be fit for purpose unless its a write off or lost and the thread starter did say about the "posted at buyers risk aspect" of your so called contract so if that was the contract why are people flaming other people for sticking to their agreed contract sheesh loads of contracts

.... understood the bit about not posting the Prosport and selling the U. Sporter.
Next bit is confusing though - say you did post something that got lost...
Would you refund the purchaser the whole price paid - even if that was greater than the compensation you got from Royal Mail?

[Jesim1]

Having read this thread there seems to be several questions, not just one, and that is causing a lot of confusion with people saying - "but what if" and then getting an answer to the wrong question?

There is also a clear difference between a private and retail sale, regardless of what you think, and private sales are not covered by much in the way of law at all, certainly nothing beyond what has been placed in an ad as the "description" - if it's broadly correct and not deemed to be deliberately trying to decieve you then your stuck - someone’s "good condition" may not be your "good condition"?

With private people buying and selling like this they are forming a "contract of sale" - as they have very little in the way of rights on this to begin with, then what is written in the sales ad forms the basis of the contract - so if a seller says "will post at buyers expense and risk" then by agreeing to a sale the buyer has accepted this, and this is their contract, and they are now liable, whether they like it or not. If they don't accept this, they simply do not agree to the sellers terms and do not buy- easy!

Evil bay and PayPal don't do guns full stop, they will not help in any way regarding a gun transaction as you have broken their Ts&Cs if you have used them for this. The bay will help with components or accessories depending if it meets their criteria - you would have to read their very large amount of small print for this.

I'm sure some people will agree with what I have written, others won't.

There is also the big question of what is posted - guns and expensive scopes are the big thing, and most people will understand and accept this has to be agreed to liability etc., but there are then the other items which have less value and are more "postable" in the normal meaning of not being on any excluded or prohibited list - a bi pod for example.

Most people will do the right things with smaller, less valuable items, or get it insured if it can be, but there are scammers on forums whether we like it or not, and there have been threads to prove it. So I think it's in everyone best interest to look at the item, the seller, the buyer, and how many posts they have, length of service etc. and make an informed decision as to whether they want to do business - which is what we all do subconsciously to an extent, we should just think a bit more about it as the cost and risk rises.

I don't think there will be or can be an answer to this thread - at least not in the thread it's self. I think it's just a case of knowing what your getting into - which when spending the kind of money we see changing hands for some items is sensible if nothing else?

James