Ox springs

[gtfreight]

Ok it's time for me to ask a stupid question as I have never seen why, but I have seen so many threads saying that Ox springs are pants and advising people not to use them. I personally have never had one but why are they slated so much?
As a layman I would have thought that a square section spring, when compressed, would be more effecient than a round section spring due to the flat surfaces, making it possible to use a shorter spring to make the same energy, thus meaning less preload and cocking effort. Would a square section spring be more prone to breaking?
Obviously my theory is incorrect otherwise the square section spring would be the way to go.

[Mach 1.5]

Early MK2 HW97's were fitted with square section springs...so couldn't have been that bad!!!! Mach 1.5

[I. J.]

Didn't some of the early Venom tuned rifles, Lazerglide, have square section main springs? Probably not Ox (or Air Force) but square section all the same.

[Hsing-ee]

I think because they are oversize, people would cut them down to the minimum that they could get away with. Resulting in a harshly recoilling, inaccurate and often less-powerful gun. If you trim them to get the optimum amount of stored energy for a smooth shot cycle they are probably alright.

However, I have had secondhand guns with what looked like bits of the piston shaved off by the square edges.

[Hsing-ee]

Didn't some of the early Venom tuned rifles, Lazerglide, have square section main springs? Probably not Ox (or Air Force) but square section all the same.

The early Venoms used very strong springs, so quite possibly. The smooth tunes came later ...

[bighit]

some heads on vehicles has square springs for the valves but hardly any and any i did see where very very very old engines .

i did ask my boss but i can't honestly remember what he said as it was many years ago.

i do know some engine builders were speccing oval wire springs as explained here New wire shapes and configurations have also changed spring selection. Coil spring wire used to be round; now (although more costly), some springs use ovate (oval-shaped) wire. An ovate wire gives you more spring in a given amount of space, which means that at the same installed height, an ovate wire can handle more lift than an old-school round-wire spring before stacking solid.


so would an oval spring be better in shorter stroke actions ?

[oliver13]

I'm fairly sure I've replaced all my OEM springs by now with Titan ones, I like them for their good consistent quality, but they are sold over size so you've almost certainly got to cut them down, which can be a problem for some I know. There's a fair bit of experimentation to get it right, you can't cut it back on if you go too far.
And that black low friction coating makes some pretty lethal smelling fumes so its best not to collapse a coil on the gas cooker in the kitchen...
I did try a square section spring once in my Airsporter, Pre chrony days, but I'm pretty sure it was producing less power for more cocking effort, & after a week I took it apart to find it full of swarf where the spring had been gnawing at the inside of the piston.
I've lost track of it in the last 40 years, which is a shame because I currently need a gate closer.

[Phil Russell]

I am surprised that there have been no 'they are horrible; destroy your rifle' type posts yet because that certainly is the impression given by many people. I have seen, and shot many rifles fitted with square section springs; they may have been Ox brand (are there others?) but generally speaking the rifles shot very well and I could see no sign of any damage caused by the spring. A few were 'harsh' but on inspection they were clearly running very close to or over the limit. No doubt the previous owner had bought a replacement spring that turned out to be a square section one and crammed it in with no thought to power output as they most likely had no chronoscope. I have also seen an inappropriate square section spring fitted... clearly the wrong size, too great od such that it began to bind in the piston on cocking.
So ... I am not sure they deserve the bad reputation they seem to have built up ... but personally whenever I am replacing a spring I will use a round section one.
Cheers, Phil

[Rich]

It's a statement of the obvious, but square section springs are wound from square section wire.

But in the winding process, the square section is not retained; the section distorts as the outer edge has further to go than the inner edge. And the sides of each face get drawn inwards, leaving the corners sticking proud, marginally. It's the sharp corners that lead to the problem of damage.

If you take a square section spring, you may be able to feel how these corners stand proud. It doesn't take much judicious work with a grinder to remove these high points, just hold the spring at 45 degrees to the corner of the wheel, and rotate the spring so that it works its way along from one end to the other, taking the two corners off in one pass.

My old HW80 has a square section spring doctored as above and is smooth to shoot.

[Scubashot]

I am surprised that there have been no 'they are horrible; destroy your rifle' type posts yet because that certainly is the impression given by many people. I have seen, and shot many rifles fitted with square section springs; they may have been Ox brand (are there others?) but generally speaking the rifles shot very well and I could see no sign of any damage caused by the spring. A few were 'harsh' but on inspection they were clearly running very close to or over the limit. No doubt the previous owner had bought a replacement spring that turned out to be a square section one and crammed it in with no thought to power output as they most likely had no chronoscope. I have also seen an inappropriate square section spring fitted... clearly the wrong size, too great od such that it began to bind in the piston on cocking.
So ... I am not sure they deserve the bad reputation they seem to have built up ... but personally whenever I am replacing a spring I will use a round section one.
Cheers, Phil

I too have been surprised at the mild response to this question.
About thirty years ago I bought a new HW77 and within a year or so decided to tune it with a GunSport Maximiser kit - advertised to improve the consistency etc of your rifle but guaranteed not to take it over the limit. The kit included an Ox spring along with a spring guide, piston sleeve, new seal and several "special" lubricants.
At that time chronos were not commonplace and a different attitude to air guns prevailed so I never worried too much about it. I had a FAC for a 0.22 target rifle and pistol so played with the air rifle as a garden gun.
I have played with the gun on and off over the years until recently a friend obtained an FAC and with it a 40 ft-lb rifle. At this point a chrono became available and I discovered that my '77 had been over the limit for many years. I therefore stripped it to detune it and despite all the horror stories that I had heard could find no internal damage.
I have now replaced the Ox with a modern V Mach kit but find no improvement in the shot cycle and still had to do a load of fettling to keep the power under the limit!

[Phil Russell]

I too have been surprised at the mild response to this question.
About thirty years ago I bought a new HW77 and within a year or so decided to tune it with a GunSport Maximiser kit - advertised to improve the consistency etc of your rifle but guaranteed not to take it over the limit. The kit included an Ox spring along with a spring guide, piston sleeve, new seal and several "special" lubricants.
At that time chronos were not commonplace and a different attitude to air guns prevailed so I never worried too much about it. I had a FAC for a 0.22 target rifle and pistol so played with the air rifle as a garden gun.
I have played with the gun on and off over the years until recently a friend obtained an FAC and with it a 40 ft-lb rifle. At this point a chrono became available and I discovered that my '77 had been over the limit for many years. I therefore stripped it to detune it and despite all the horror stories that I had heard could find no internal damage.
I have now replaced the Ox with a modern V Mach kit but find no improvement in the shot cycle and still had to do a load of fettling to keep the power under the limit!

Ah yes ... the Maximiser. I remember it well. When I bought my 77K (.177) all those years ago I was persuaded by the adverts that the Maximiser was the way to go so duly fitted a kit. It was not easy to cram the spring in. In those days I had no compressor or sash cramp, just good old muscle power. But I did it. I remember the anticipation of a new shooting experience after my hours of polishing and re-lubing. The experience was certainly new ... it was horrible. The rifle was harsh, jumpy and not at all pleasant to shoot. After about 20 shots I too it apart again and replaced the Maximiser spring (an OX type) with the one I had just removed. Back to normal although a bit sweeter due, I guess, to all my polishing and relubing. I suspect the Ox had put my 77K over the limit but I had no chrono, not even a ballistic pendulum ... they were in their infancy then.
Ah, memories.
Cheers, Phil

[lensman57]

The clue is in the name, OX.

A.G

[Mach 1.5]

Venom NEVER used square section springs. Mach 1.5

[madcarlos]

I too have been surprised at the mild response to this question.
About thirty years ago I bought a new HW77 and within a year or so decided to tune it with a GunSport Maximiser kit - advertised to improve the consistency etc of your rifle but guaranteed not to take it over the limit. The kit included an Ox spring along with a spring guide, piston sleeve, new seal and several "special" lubricants.
At that time chronos were not commonplace and a different attitude to air guns prevailed so I never worried too much about it. I had a FAC for a 0.22 target rifle and pistol so played with the air rifle as a garden gun.
I have played with the gun on and off over the years until recently a friend obtained an FAC and with it a 40 ft-lb rifle. At this point a chrono became available and I discovered that my '77 had been over the limit for many years. I therefore stripped it to detune it and despite all the horror stories that I had heard could find no internal damage.
I have now replaced the Ox with a modern V Mach kit but find no improvement in the shot cycle and still had to do a load of fettling to keep the power under the limit!

As above, Me to bought my 77k just over 30 odd years ago and fitted the maximiser kit, I used to shoot very often back then and did often strip and clean the 77 quite often, From memory I'm sure I fitted 3 maximiser kits back in the early years and replaced the ox springs quite often back then, As above no crono to test it until I found a local shop in aberdare who tested my then hw 77 and hw 80 with results that are not quite accepted these days, So unless the ox spring has changed it is most likely to need cutting to be under legal limit, Would make more sense to buy a spring or kit that would only need adding or removing washers /spacers.

[Trumpetier]

A while back I had a TX200 mk2 which was fitted with a square section spring, it shot nice. I also have had a early 97 that was also fitted with a square section spring, it to shot very nice.