Respect To Springer Shooters

[Gareth W-B]

I'm gonna get me a .22 barrel and some of Gareth's wind-free pellets.

Good shout. You'll easily recognise them there pellets on your local RFD's shelf, as they'll be the ones that come in a tin that has been hand hewn from a section of the Holy Grail, and will be wrapped with a little piece from a Golden Fleece instead of wadding.

[dayglowfroggy]

I was shooting my. 177 tx on hft course for the first time in v three months yesterday that's three months off any hft before that I used a PC twice so probably 5 months since the tx came out to play.
I was on express pellets so quite light and the two pcp shooters I was with were shooting.22 one on normal express the other on 16 grain I was giving much more wind than them.
I ended only one point behind and one point in front of them but none of us did well in that wind.

At the 2nd bash this year we were shooting the 70 yard bucket with. 22 hw95 in serious wind I had to pretend to have 7 mildots for the wind and pretend I had six for the height but it did work I passed the gun around with this instruction and others were hitting the bucket. I didn't see any. 177 hit it all morning.

[Craig-P]

This happened to me , I was having a bit of a low spell with the springer so shot my lg110 to cheer myself up a bit and did worse !, I think its a physcological thing you think the pcp is a piece of p**s so you forget all your technique, when you shoot the springer any lack of concentration is punished .

I think that’s bang on the money, mate.
I’d been up half the night with my daughter so I was in no mood to lug my 10+ lb springer around the course and decided on a nice lightweight PCP to play with. I wasn’t expecting brilliant results as it was blowing a gale - but missing 25 yarders isn’t my usual.

I just like the sound of that excuse anyway, so I’ll go with that

[TonyL]

Agreed.

But, with conditions such as we experienced at the weekend, no-one should be beating themselves up. It was, obviously, windy. Really windy. And so changeable, too. Yes, experience counts for so much. The more you've shot in adverse conditions, the more valuable information you're putting into the memory bank. And tips like looking at the marks on faceplates also help, too.

But conditions like we saw this weekend make it something of a lottery. One second you might have a 40 mph gust, the next 50 mph. And changing directions, swirling about, too. Not to mention the shooter being buffeted about, too.

Switching between guns ain't exactly going to help, either.


But did you know the springer has a rudimentary "stability device" built in? All that surge which we've been trying to reduce all these years actually acts as a gyroscopic internal stabiliser, y'know, helping to keep the muzzle orientated towards the target.













Er, may have just made that one up. Although some do report better results when shooting unsupported standing with a Boinger.


Springers rule.....wind or no wind!

[rabbitwrecker]

Springers rule.....wind or no wind!

Every time, Tone...

[lensman57]

Every time, Tone...

Well, they are certainly much more challenging to shoot accurately than the ' dead ' PCPs.

A.G

[Phil Russell]

Interesting comment about studying the faceplate of a target in windy conditions ... advice is good for both springer and pcp. It can give valuable information on the wind direction and a possible general feel for strength. But it does not solve all the issues as it does not tell you where the shooters who created the splats on the faceplate were actually aiming. Were some aiming 1" off, 2" off or maybe took pot luck if the wind was variable and shot spot on? I can still remember a shot I took in very windy conditions. Wind was right to left and true to prediction the face plate was peppered with left hand splats. I gave what I thought was generous right hand bias only to see my shot sail past the plate on the left. Such is life.
Cheers, Phil

[Rickenbacker]

Good shout. You'll easily recognise them there pellets on your local RFD's shelf, as they'll be the ones that come in a tin that has been hand hewn from a section of the Holy Grail, and will be wrapped with a little piece from a Golden Fleece instead of wadding.

A business proposition for you, Gareth:

Golden Fleece™
>Windless Springer Pellets<

Designed in Chelmsford, Marketed in Wales, Made in China

[Gareth W-B]

A business proposition for you, Gareth:

Golden Fleece™
>Windless Springer Pellets<

Designed in Chelmsford, Marketed in Wales, Made in China

Yep, I'm in ... Where do I sign?

[lensman57]

" Interesting comment about studying the faceplate of a target in windy conditions ".

This only works if the target is to be shot from a stable position such as prone or standing supported. Forget standing unsupported and kneeling.

A.G

[scutter]

I posted on this in some detail recently.

Basically ... everything that you need to do to shoot a springer accurately, you are forced not to do on a HFT course.

HFT and PCP's are made for each other. HFT and springers ... good luck.

FT and springers ... far more of a chance I reckon.

Out of the 9 National rounds ... 2017 4x qualified, 2016 3x qualified, 2015 4x qualified. Qualified meaning shot at least 6 out of 9.

No recoil shooter has scored a 90% plus in any round in the last 2 years. As courses have tightened up to test top PCP shooters with top end target rifles and scopes, it's a tough life for anyone wanting to use a boinger.

This is true, however, in the Sussex interclub series a springer shooter cleared a course where many of the top UKAHFT shooters didn't and there has also been springer shooters who matched the PCP mob for top score.

Also, at Lea Valley last week a springer shooter was top score by 3 points and last year at the gathering (UKAHFT end of season shoot) Vince Holland was top score with a boinger (59)

Springers can compete against PCP in the right hands.

[rogb]

This is true, however, in the Sussex interclub series a springer shooter cleared a course where many of the top UKAHFT shooters didn't and there has also been springer shooters who matched the PCP mob for top score.

Also, at Lea Valley last week a springer shooter was top score by 3 points and last year at the gathering (UKAHFT end of season shoot) Vince Holland was top score with a boinger (59)

Springers can compete against PCP in the right hands.

Go on, rub it in you nasty man

[bozzer]

Gary

Firstly, well done on being this year's recoil Champ.

There is no disrespect here to anyone and I'm just quoting stats that are on the internet for everyone to see.

It's no point quoting specific triumphs by springer men. I've stated many times that you may see a decent springer shooter put in a great score and even beat the top PCP 0.177 shooter of the day. Kyle has done that on occasion. As you say, Vince did it last year in the Gathering. I'm sure you've put in very high scores in some shoots with a springer. So have I. The point is that you don't see springer shooters doing it consistently. You do see PCP 0.177 shooters doing it week after week.

A top PCP 0.177 shooter will consistently score over 55 ( probably over 56 ). There will be the odd strong wind shoot where it's a lottery for everyone and they shoot a low score ( probably still over 50 ) ... but their average will be over 55/60 ( virtually always well over 90% of that day's top score ).

Yes, you get the odd shoot where a good springer shooter puts in a mid 50 or even high 50 score. The next shoot they may score late 40s or even mid 40s.

I'm talking tough comps here. So mostly Nationals or NW Gauntlet style shoots. A lot of local shoots tend to be a little easier.

So these top springer men are either way behind the decent PCP 0.177 men and can't hold the consistency ... or ... there will be plenty of targets on the tougher courses where it's more of a lottery for the recoil shooter. Hence their scores bounce from mid to high 50s to high to mid 40s.

So, you get the odd day when the lottery goes in favour of the springer shooter and they put in a decent PCP 0.177 type score ... they can't do it week after week.

Most decent springer shooters, on the range, in a comfort zone position, will group as well as the 0.177 PCP shooters at all ranges. Put them on the course where you are forced into different positions and forced to change hold positions on the rifle, and the 0.177 PCP shooters can still group tight and hit predictable points of impact ... the springer shooters can't.

Judging range is judging range. Judging wind is judging wind. As above ... I'd imagine you can shoot excellent groups in a familiar prone with your springer. The last two years you shot 0.177 PCP Open class you averaged @ 90% and had many scores over 90%. This year you shot springer and averaged 82%. Top score of 85.9%. So shooting springer has considerably reduced your scores. I'm suggesting that although shooting a springer accurately is harder than a PCP, but you will have worked on that to handle the recoil and get good groupings, it's the fact that having to shoot in various forced prone positions and having to slightly change the hold on the rifle, will have meant that your average groups will have opened up slightly and your POI's won't have been as predictable. So there will have been lots of targets where you didn't miss by much ( probably edge of kill ), but you didn't knock them over and you would have done with your PCP, and that's because the groups just opened up slightly because you were out of normal position and shooting a recoiling rifle.

I'm not knocking anyone or anything ... it's just how it is with how HFT is shot and how the courses have evolved to test the best 0.177 PCP shooters. I think the tough courses are now at a point where no matter how much a springer shooter practices and no matter how well he judges wind/range or shoots on the day, there will be several targets where the kills are slightly smaller than a reasonable grouping that can be achieved with a recoiling rifle ( variable course positions ... not range comfort position ). So some will sneak in and some will hit edge and miss. That's now a lottery. Hence no one scores consistently high scores at the top events.

[scutter]

No offence taken mate and I am intrigued by what you are saying.

My spring gun from a flat surface will shoot a group as tight as my Steyr, (10 shots half the size of a 5p at 45 yards) and from standing and kneeling it is very similar. What I do struggle with is targets where you have to come up the peg or shoot from the wrong side of the peg.

It is true that a 25mm at 40 yards is harder with the boinger then with the Steyr, but targets like 15mm at 25 yards are the same.

At the SiHFT series I averaged a 92.6 over the 6 shoots and this was higher then the nationals and I wouold agree that the courses were slighly easier. So, on a easy or mid level course I would say that a boinger can hold it's own against a PCP. On a top end course from hell though, you may be correct, if the targets are hard at the peg and not the target a springer will struggle.

This was my learning year, I will be interested to see what happens for 2018 and luckily, you have given me a target. Get an average above 90%

Chilly

[cooper_dan]

No offence taken mate and I am intrigued by what you are saying.

My spring gun from a flat surface will shoot a group as tight as my Steyr, (10 shots half the size of a 5p at 45 yards) and from standing and kneeling it is very similar. What I do struggle with is targets where you have to come up the peg or shoot from the wrong side of the peg.


Chilly

This is interesting. I have been practising and shooting exclusively holding up the peg. My reasoning being I won't have any issues for awkward shots that force you to do this. Best scores so far have been 90% but not in any serious competitions. Still not sure if this is the best way but I'm going to try it next year