No wonder we get a bad name

[Rocket launcher]

From the local newspaper
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/new..._him_with_gun/

He had permission!!!!!

[Stuart_B]

From the local newspaper
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/new..._him_with_gun/

He had permission!!!!!

If you take it at face value and the air pistol was pointed at them, it really doesn't matter if he had permission.

Saying that I find it difficult to believe the story as the guy sounds like a complete tool to be honest.

The comment section is hilarious !

[angrybear]

Having permission doesn't make people less stupid.
If your permission has public access, like a footpath, then you need to take account of that in your actions, Equally the public need to know shooters may be there with the landowners permission, which is best done with signs at each end of the path.
These sound like morons with airguns, rather than being "knowledgeable shooters"

[armedpiskey]

If the land has a public right of way on it surely the landowner is at fault here for not policing whats happening on his or her land? idiots with guns are doing us no favours at all,unfortunately the youth of today don't see consequence in their actions because society has given them far too easy a ride.

[bullbarrel]

BMW drivers eh!!

[Marc.RG1]

I stopped reading half way down the article as it started to do my head in, after reading this bit hear lol..

"I shouted again and he showed me the gun and said 'it's just a .22'. But I think you can put proper bullets in there as well as pellets.

I think it was a case of the land owners fault if he gave the kid permission, he should make sure there is a designated area for shooting, no shooting near the path, it was also the kids fault for shooting near the path and road and contining to do so while people are was there and clearly in distress, and I feel the other guy over reacted too. That's just my take on the small amount I read.

ATB Marc

[bighit]

gets a lot worse when the public have the right to roam as they do up here .


the general public like the guy complaining are not innocent either .


there is a dog owner near my permission that lives right next to one of the fields i shoot . if she sees me (i pass her house in the car and she can see the full length of the field) she then grabs the dog and strides through the field whistling at he dog or telling the dog to chase the rabbits . if she then sees me she slows down her walking and takes for ever to go through the field . if she does not see me she walks at a fair speed .

if i'm seen i will unload the rifle and put it in my gun bag and sit down where i am or walk in the opposite direction .

she has been asked not to enter the field when any one is shooting ( myself or the estate gamekeepers )but she still does it .

the estate does not want to take it further as they don't want the bad publicity . she is surrounded by fields but always uses this field .

her husband ,he is a fine .if he sees me or the estate gamekeepers he will turn a head back . i have spoken to him a number of times and he is a nice guy . he says he spoken to his wife and asked her not to do what she does but she wont listen.

she called the police one night as the estate gamekeeper was out shooting foxes . they got 3 that night . she called the police saying there was a guy in the field recklessly firing at things in the dark and shining a high power blinding light in her window.

the police called the gamekeepers (they had previously called the MOD police and the civilian police to say they would be out shooting and lamping) and asked if they were still on the land and lamping and they said yes , they were then told there had been a complaint and the gamekeeper said i can guess who and told them the ladies name . the police would not confirm it . the gamekeepers knew who it was as her house is the only one there .

she even walked through the field when the gamekeepers were flushing out the foxes from the wood.she was told to stop but carried on. keepers then stopped and recorded what was going on in case there was a confrontation. she was shouting they were murderers.

she is vocally an anti ,and i was told by my brother in law about her before i started shooting there . she complains about his tractor and cows churning up the mud at the gate to the field . a typical townie .


i tend not to go in that field now . and if i do i stay at the other end of it . not worth the hassle .

[MartynB]

BMW drivers eh!!

Oi !

[air-tech]

I actually found the article quite hilarious. The guy reporting the incident is evidently a drama queen, and the Police's statement at the end, infers as much.

[Jonjon79]

It sounds like six of one, half a dozen of the other - irresponsible shooter and one of 'those' dog walkers

[negotiator]

Dog walkers down here don't respect boundaries or pick shite up.
And they love a bit of drama ��
Told a few to get off the land being shot on .
I know they can't all be bad but I've encountered wuite a few .

[bighit]

It sounds like six of one, half a dozen of the other - irresponsible shooter and one of 'those' dog walkers

the public will see the word gun then ignore the other side of the story .

[lensman57]

What is the position of the law if the land owner had errects a large sign saying ' Beware Vermin Control/Shooting in progress '?

A.G

[bighit]

What is the position of the law if the land owner had errects a large sign saying ' Beware Vermin Control/Shooting in progress '?

A.G

SHOOTING
(RIGHTS OF WAY & ACCESS)
[ENGLAND & WALES]
As shooting is an activity that occurs in places where the public often have a right
of access, we have looked carefully at the legislation specific to shooting near or
over public rights of way. The interpretation of authority to use firearms on land
with public rights of way and in public places often leads to confusion for everyone.
BASC advises that discretion be used where shooting needs to take place and
where a public right of way exists. All persons participating in any shooting activity
must recognise that users of public rights of way have the right to pass and repass.
One should refrain from shooting when a right of way is being used as this
could be construed as a common law nuisance, wilful obstruction or a breach of
Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974.
RIGHTS OF WAY
DEFINITIONS
Rights of way fall into two categories, Public rights of way and Private rights of way.
Public rights of way
Highways are a way in which the public have the right to pass and re-pass by foot,
on horseback or with vehicles. Bridleways, footpaths and metalled roads
(carriageways) are all examples of highways.
Carriageways are a way constructed or comprised in a highway (other than a
cycle track) over which the public have a right of way by foot, on horseback or with
vehicles.
Bridleways are a highway over which the public has a right of way on foot, on
horseback or leading a horse. There is also a right to use a pedal cycle on a
bridleway providing the cyclist gives way to pedestrians and riders.
Private rights of way fall into two categories, the first being for the benefit of a
landowner in respect of accessing his own land via someone else’s and where public
access is restricted and the second being ‘permissive paths’. Permissive paths are
paths and tracks that are not public rights of way. There is no statutory right to use
them and they are not covered by rights of way legislation. Often there will be a
notice at either end of the route explaining this and setting out any conditions the
owner has set. You may find, for example, that use is restricted to daylight hours,
that dogs are banned entirely, or that the path may be moved or closed at certain
times.
SHOOTING NEAR HIGHWAYS (E.G. ROADS & CARRIAGEWAYS)
In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to
discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of
or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is
injured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as
amended]. It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is not
prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or that
someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to
make a detour.
For the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), a
‘highway’ is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does
not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the fifty feet rule
described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g.
footpaths.
Whilst the Firearms Act does not provide a statutory definition of what is meant by
“lawful authority” or “reasonable excuse”. We believe that “lawful authority” would
not necessarily apply to sportsmen as this seems to relate to those issued with
firearms in connection with official duties such as police or military personnel.
“Reasonable excuse” would apply to sportsmen shooting over land with permission.
Section 19 of the Firearms Act with regard to having a ‘firearm in a public place’
also applies and is described on page 4. This legislation applies to all public places
and not just open access land.
SHOOTING NEAR RIGHTS OF WAY (E.G. FOOTPATHS & BRIDLEWAYS)
When the footpath runs across private land the ownership of the land and sporting
rights are unaltered. Therefore a person with the shooting/sporting rights may
shoot on or over footpaths on their land equally to public having the right to walk
(to pass and re-pass) along it as a means of communication. So the public and the
shooters have a concurrent right to the footpath and it is up to both parties to not
obstruct the other.
However if you shoot over footpaths, only do so if you have permission to drop shot
over the land on the other side. To fire a bullet or shot onto land that you have no
right to shoot into or over is ‘constructive trespass’. Whilst this is a civil matter
BASC strongly advises not to do this. It is also a basic safety precaution not to
shoot into cover where you cannot be sure what your projectile(s) will hit. It is
especially important to apply this when shooting near footpaths obscured by hedges
or foliage. It is good practice to only shoot across footpaths where you can see
approaching users from a long way off and be certain you will not cause danger or
alarm. Please note that in the case of air weapons it is a criminal offence to fire an
air pellet outside the boundary of your permitted premises.
If you shoot from a path situated on somebody else’s land (regardless of who owns
the rights to shoot on the land you are shooting into) it is taken to be armed
trespass which is a criminal offence.
If a member of public is using a public right of way that crosses or is in the vicinity
of your shoot or drive, the member of public has the right to pass and re-pass
along the right of way without hindrance. Therefore any shooting should be
refrained from until they are at a distance where your activity should not cause any
concern. This is particularly important if a bridleway is in use as a horse rider could
be endangered by a startled horse. If a member of public approaches a
path/bridleway a method for ceasing to shoot should be in place. One example of a
proven method is:
A member of the shoot should be positioned at either end of the route (where
appropriate) and shooting area to keep a watch for users of the right of way. When
a person is seen approaching on the right of way the following action should then
be taken. The ‘watcher’ should sound a horn, whistle etc to stop the drive, this
person should request that the rider or person(s) on foot wait. All guns should then
unload, and have their guns broken in the safest position pointing to the ground,
then the person is able to continue to use the right of way.
Persons using a right of way are prohibited from loitering or using it for purposes
other than a reasonable use. If a person strays from a path then only ‘civil trespass’
would apply (See below); however if a person commits ‘aggravated trespass’ (See
page 4) i.e. to disrupt your course of business or lawful activity, the police may be
called. In difficult circumstances it is sensible to call the police before the potential
“activist” calls the police with a malicious allegation against you. “forewarned is
forearmed!”
Additionally if a person uses a footpath to disrupt lawful activities they are also
viewed as trespassers. In the case of Harrison –v- The Duke of Rutland (1893)
Harrison had used a footpath to disrupt the Duke’s grouse shoot by waving a
handkerchief and opening and closing his umbrella. It was held that even though
Harrison had remained on the footpath he was still a trespasser because of his
actions in attempting to disrupt the shoot.
It is also an offence to discharge a firearm in any street so as to obstruct, annoy or
endanger residents or passers-by. The word “Street” is defined to include any road,
alley, court, square, thoroughfare or public passage. [Section 28 of the Town Police
Clauses Act 1847].
NB: It is not clear whether this definition extends to footpaths or bridleways within
towns as no court has been asked to clarify this point.
TRESPASS
CIVIL TRESPASS
Civil trespass is simply a person entering property where they do not have the right
to be or property where they have been given permission to be, but have
subsequently been asked to leave. An occupier may use reasonable force to remove
a person from premises and anyone, including the police, may assist the occupier
with this. Civil trespass is not a criminal matter for the police. Prosecutions may
only take place if a landowner chooses to prosecute the person privately in court.
ARMED TRESPASS
It is an offence to enter any building, part of a building or land (including land
covered by water) with a firearm without reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies
on the person). [Section 20 Firearms Act 1968]
AGGRAVATED TRESPASS (DISRUPTION OF LAWFUL SHOOTING ACTIVITIES)
Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994
Section 68 provides for the offence of Aggravated Trespass. A person shall be
guilty of an offence if he trespasses on land (including buildings - Section 59, AntiSocial
Behaviour Act 2003) with the intention of disrupting or obstructing a lawful
activity. This includes intimidating another person so as to deter him from engaging
in a lawful activity.
Section 69 empowers the police to direct aggravated trespassers to leave the land.
This includes circumstances where the police believe a person is about to commit
the offence of aggravated trespass or intimidation. If the person directed fails to
leave the land as soon as practicable or having left the land as a trespasser reenters
the land within three months from the day a direction was given they
commit an offence.
OPEN ACCESS LAND - COUNTRYSIDE AND RIGHTS OF WAY (CROW) ACT 2000
Section 42 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 provides for other Acts of
Parliament to apply to open access land. This section relates to things done, or
omitted to be done, in public places or other places to which the public have access.
For the purposes of shooting these are:
• Discharging firearms - Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as
described on page 1.
• Carrying Firearms in public places - Section 19 of the Firearms Act 1968
makes it an offence for someone to have with them a loaded shotgun, a
loaded air weapon, or any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together
with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm in a public place without
lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on the person).
The Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003 also extends the Firearms Act to include
unloaded air weapons and imitation firearms.
The British Association for Shooting and Conservation has raised concerns with
DEFRA, on behalf of its members, that allowing sections 19 and 47 of the Firearms
Act to apply to all land mapped as ‘open access land’ might lead members of the
public to misunderstand the scope of the provisions and contact the police. A
possibility also exists that some members of the public opposed to shooting
activities might make malicious complaints under section 19.
Section 47 of the Firearms Act makes provision for a constable to examine firearms
and ammunition if he has cause to suspect a person of having a firearm, with or
without ammunition, with him in a public place; or to be committing or about to
commit, elsewhere than in a public place, an offence relevant to the purposes of
the rest of Section 47.
The police are undoubtedly and rightly able to ‘stop and search’ individuals if they
suspect an offence has or is about to be committed and for no other reason.
Although it is not a legal requirement to carry your firearm or shotgun certificate
whilst shooting, it is especially advisable to do so (or to carry a copy) when
shooting on ‘open access land’ to avoid your firearms being seized if stopped by
police.
If you believe the police to have acted illegally or improperly, a complaint should be
directed to the chief officer of police for the force concerned or sent to the
Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/, giving
brief details and a statement of the exact complaint.
Additional information about disruption of shoots by demonstrators can be viewed
on the BASC website www.basc.org.uk
ENQUIRIES TO: FIREARMS DEPT – 01244 573010
e-mail: firearms@basc.org.uk
© June 2012

[Jonjon79]

the public will see the word gun then ignore the other side of the story .

I agree mate - hysterical dog walker wins by default