Webley Mark 2 Target - first variation - walnut grips?

[45flint]

Are walnut grips any rarer on this pistol. A lot of the pics I see are Bakelite?

[micky2]

Are walnut grips any rarer on this pistol. A lot of the pics I see are Bakelite?

Hi the only Walnut grips that l know of that was fitted to the Target MK11 are the ones that was done for Stoeger arms that have checkering on them. which does make a difference in the price.

[pnird]

Interesting! My example of this model with walnut grips, no. 20980, has none of the Stoeger marks on it; has anyone else got one like mine?

Regards,

John

[45flint]

Interesting I have not received the gun yet but the serial number is 21XXX? looking at pic and grips are checkered. Stoeger markings were not mentioned and from pics it doesn’t look like it? The Blue Book would agree with the Stoeger comment but that looks to be the 3rd variant?

[cinedux]

https://imgur.com/9TM7HcL

.22 barrels should have been made of sterner stuff!

[45flint]

https://imgur.com/9TM7HcL

.22 barrels should have been made of sterner stuff!

All in the same serial number range 21,XXX? Was glad the one I found was in .177 and sterner

[flogger]

Interesting! My example of this model with walnut grips, no. 20980, has none of the Stoeger marks on it; has anyone else got one like mine?

Regards,

John

Indeed i have a Stoeger example of this model with walnut grips and also with two barrels in a fitted case.Stoeger is stamped down the side of the action.It has had a professional re-finish but it certainly looks the business.Roly.

[Josie & John]

Hi All,

The Mark I Webley air pistol was patented in 1924 and big game rifle distributors The Hoffman Arms Company exhibited one at Camp Perry the same year. The Webley was a popular pistol both in the U.K and around the world as it was made to the same standard as the company’s well respected firearms. Numerous Webley Mark I and Mark II target models were imported into the U.S.A., where they proved popular with reviewers such as Julian Hatcher. The top of the range Mark II was fitted with hand chequered walnut grips and inset Webley medallion for the fortunate Americans rather than the standard vulcanite for the rest of the world.

Initially the walnut stocked Mark IIs were distributed by Hoffman but not marked as such. Stoeger took over the Webley agency in 1927 and marked their name on walnut stocked pistols from then on. The 1928 Stoeger catalogue stated all the latest models were stamped with the Stoeger name and prospective purchasers were warned to beware of older models, confirming that others had previously imported Webley air pistols.

The 'unmarked' walnut stocked pistols are therefore not Stoegers but Hoffman imports. There are less of them than Stoegers, so they are a little scarcer.

Kind regards,

John

[micky2]

Hi All,

The Mark I Webley air pistol was patented in 1924 and big game rifle distributors The Hoffman Arms Company exhibited one at Camp Perry the same year. The Webley was a popular pistol both in the U.K and around the world as it was made to the same standard as the company’s well respected firearms. Numerous Webley Mark I and Mark II target models were imported into the U.S.A., where they proved popular with reviewers such as Julian Hatcher. The top of the range Mark II was fitted with hand chequered walnut grips and inset Webley medallion for the fortunate Americans rather than the standard vulcanite for the rest of the world.

Initially the walnut stocked Mark IIs were distributed by Hoffman but not marked as such. Stoeger took over the Webley agency in 1927 and marked their name on walnut stocked pistols from then on. The 1928 Stoeger catalogue stated all the latest models were stamped with the Stoeger name and prospective purchasers were warned to beware of older models, confirming that others had previously imported Webley air pistols.

The 'unmarked' walnut stocked pistols are therefore not Stoegers but Hoffman imports. There are less of them than Stoegers, so they are a little scarcer.

Kind regards,

John

Hi John, many thanks for the information, that has ansered a few questions for me as l didn't know about the Hoffman Webleys.
ATB,
Mick.

[45flint]

Hi All,

The Mark I Webley air pistol was patented in 1924 and big game rifle distributors The Hoffman Arms Company exhibited one at Camp Perry the same year. The Webley was a popular pistol both in the U.K and around the world as it was made to the same standard as the company’s well respected firearms. Numerous Webley Mark I and Mark II target models were imported into the U.S.A., where they proved popular with reviewers such as Julian Hatcher. The top of the range Mark II was fitted with hand chequered walnut grips and inset Webley medallion for the fortunate Americans rather than the standard vulcanite for the rest of the world.

Initially the walnut stocked Mark IIs were distributed by Hoffman but not marked as such. Stoeger took over the Webley agency in 1927 and marked their name on walnut stocked pistols from then on. The 1928 Stoeger catalogue stated all the latest models were stamped with the Stoeger name and prospective purchasers were warned to beware of older models, confirming that others had previously imported Webley air pistols.

The 'unmarked' walnut stocked pistols are therefore not Stoegers but Hoffman imports. There are less of them than Stoegers, so they are a little scarcer.

Kind regards,

John

Thanks much, great forum to find out questions like this. My gun fits what you are saying, since the gun I have coming is the first pattern Mark II Target which would fall into the Hoffman time frame you describe. The walnut grips really are a great plus to these. It is my first straight grip which fits nicely into my prewar blued pistol collection. Will post pics which it arrives, got three day inspection so hope is it is as good as the pics. Also interesting to me that this is that rare instance where being in the US actually is an advantage to collecting a UK airgun. Most of the time I look at the guns offered here and just get depressed. Lol

[Josie & John]

Thanks much, great forum to find out questions like this. My gun fits what you are saying, since the gun I have coming is the first pattern Mark II Target which would fall into the Hoffman time frame you describe. The walnut grips really are a great plus to these. It is my first straight grip which fits nicely into my prewar blued pistol collection. Will post pics which it arrives, got three day inspection so hope is it is as good as the pics. Also interesting to me that this is that rare instance where being in the US actually is an advantage to collecting a UK airgun. Most of the time I look at the guns offered here and just get depressed. Lol

The trouble is you will probably want to find the other Stoeger Webleys, which can be challenging as one is never enough! I found the Stoeger marked Junior the hardest to find but the hardest of all must be the slant gripped Senior. Grips are the same for UK and US spec pistols other than the Stoeger sold examples carry Stoeger markings.

I hope the pistol you are looking to buy lives up to expectations and look forward to seeing images in due course as I am a real fan of these 'specials'.

Kind regards,

John

[45flint]

Hi All,

The Mark I Webley air pistol was patented in 1924 and big game rifle distributors The Hoffman Arms Company exhibited one at Camp Perry the same year. The Webley was a popular pistol both in the U.K and around the world as it was made to the same standard as the company’s well respected firearms. Numerous Webley Mark I and Mark II target models were imported into the U.S.A., where they proved popular with reviewers such as Julian Hatcher. The top of the range Mark II was fitted with hand chequered walnut grips and inset Webley medallion for the fortunate Americans rather than the standard vulcanite for the rest of the world.

Initially the walnut stocked Mark IIs were distributed by Hoffman but not marked as such. Stoeger took over the Webley agency in 1927 and marked their name on walnut stocked pistols from then on. The 1928 Stoeger catalogue stated all the latest models were stamped with the Stoeger name and prospective purchasers were warned to beware of older models, confirming that others had previously imported Webley air pistols.

The 'unmarked' walnut stocked pistols are therefore not Stoegers but Hoffman imports. There are less of them than Stoegers, so they are a little scarcer.

Kind regards,

John

Looked up the Hoffman Arms Company and they started out in Cleveland Ohio which is about a hour drive from me, Camp Perry being located there also. One of the finest builders of custom high end rifles in the US at the time. Short lived put out of business in 1930 by the Drepression. Maybe useless trivia but kind of fun for me.

“The Hoffman Arms Company started out in 1923 with shop at 174 East 27th Street in Cleveland, Ohio. In 1925 the business was bought and moved to Ardmore, OK. James V. Howe, formerly of Griffin & Howe, was with the business for a short time. Hoffman Arms also employed John Wright, formerly of Holland & Holland, and his son. I bet Mr. Wright has connections in the UK who supplied these guns (shotguns).”

[Josie & John]

I find the story of the early Webley air pistols in the USA fascinating and featured it in a 3 part series in Airgun World a couple of years ago. Garvin has kindly added one of these articles to his Vintage Airgun Gallery and I hope the following link works. The remainder of my series went into some background history on Alexander Francis Stoeger and Stoeger marked air pistols. I also featured Griffin & Howe, who kindly shared some of their surviving factory records with me.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/68145...stol+Feb+%2715

I have a very early NRA review of the Webley air pistol, which I have not referred to in print as much of it would not be seen as 'PC' these days. I'm no loony leftie but the way those air pistols were tested demonstrates how some who should have known better considered them as harmless toys at the time

Kind regards,

John

[45flint]

Thanks much that was a great read.

[45flint]

Finally my Webley Mark II Target arrived. Heard the FedEx man throw it on the porch! Luckily if was packed as good as any pistol I have ever received, foam around everything. Bottom line pistol exceeded my expectations, virtually as new almost unbelievable to me for a 1925-6? Will post pics when I get back later in the day. What a nice Christmas present!

PS: Box reinforced with masking tape,lol so life is never perfect.