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Thread: Steaming a stock and stain problem...... Advice please

  1. #1
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    Steaming a stock and stain problem...... Advice please

    Strange problem I've encountered. I'm no expert but have done a few stocks in my time so yesterday was surprised when I encountered something I've not come across before. After steaming the dents out of a stock and rubbing down with 250 grit then wiping the stock down with spirit I then applied the stain (water based CCL) and it refused to take in certain areas, just would not penetrate. The timber in these areas has a slightly different texture, it looks almost shiny or polished and this texture seems to run deep. I rubbed down these areas again but still the stain didn't take, as I expected due to this strange texture still being there. These areas I think are possibly where most of the dents were so do you guys know if there is such a thing as over steaming, whereby the texture of the wood changes and the grain goes so tight the stain can't penetrate ? I can't think of what else this could be as there is no sign of oil or grease which has penetrated the wood, it's just really weird. I've now got the job of trying to remove the stain in the areas where it took, probably going to have to use wood bleach or something as I can't remove any more wood in areas like where the recoil pad goes, and then try and open the grain somehow on these shiny places. Not sure exactly what the wood is, at first it looked like walnut but I now think it could be maple. Any advice will be appreciated.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  2. #2
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    Could just be areas of really dense grain that won't absorb the stain. On a beech stock sometimes there are small "flecks" in the wood which will just not take colour. I think manufacturers overcame this by spraying the beech stocks with a stained lacquer which just sits on the surface like paint. I'd suggest going to an oil/solvent based stain which always penetrate better.

    Cheers
    Greg

  3. #3
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    Can you recommend an oil based stain Greg ?
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by vbull View Post
    Can you recommend an oil based stain Greg ?
    i sometimes use water based. may i ask why that was your first choice as oil and spirit are easier options.

  5. #5
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    It's what I've used for years with quite good results. Had to stain the wood as it was very pale.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  6. #6
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    Me and my best mate have had this problem before. We put it down to water based stain not able to penetrate through anything under the surface. This didn't seem to happen with solvent based stains. If I were you I would sand it back down and re-do with solvent based stain.
    Fozzy

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vbull View Post
    It's what I've used for years with quite good results. Had to stain the wood as it was very pale.
    yes but as you know water based raises the grain and you have to sand down again'. with oil and spirit far less so you dont remove any stain. if going for a certain affect i sometimes use water based stain.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telephonepete View Post
    yes but as you know water based raises the grain and you have to sand down again'. with oil and spirit far less so you dont remove any stain. if going for a certain affect i sometimes use water based stain.
    I am not an expert, I suggest you steam all of the stock equally, this should remove any residual oils in the wood. Make sure the wood has dried, complete [very slowly] before staining. Different woods take stain in different ways, I am still learning, I use solvent based stains, applied with cotton cloth, [ & rubber gloves!] It dries fast & I can apply more if I want a darker finish, hope this helps regards Al.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all the answers so far. Any chance I have changed the wood's structure in certain places by concentrating the steam and heat in one place for too long ? The texture certainly looks and feels different in these area's.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  10. #10
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    While I think of it, anyone used the Minwax products like Polywipe for example ? Seen some amazing results with this stuff on youtube.
    Remember, it is the strongest character that God gives the most challenges.

  11. #11
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    Something has occurred to me, you say the areas not taking stain are in and around the damaged areas? I think maybe the previous owner has possibly applied some sort of varnish, polish or wax to hide the damage, your steaming may have not removed all the traces of this even though it has raised the damage there are still bits of it bunging up the xylem tubes preventing the water based stain penetrating.
    Try soaking some turpentine into the area, it may dilute the remains of any waxes or polishes allowing the water based stain to penetrate when it has dried out, if you can try another solvent such as industrial methylated spirit (not the purple stuff, the purple dye may stain the wood and not the surgical spirit as that has castor oil in it which will be left in the xylem tubes after the ethanol/methanol has evaporated resisting water based stain absorption).
    BSA Super10 addict, other BSA's inc GoldstarSE, Original (Diana) Mod75's, Diana Mod5, HW80's, SAM 11K... All sorted!

  12. #12
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    I did a beech stock this week and had to steam out some deep dents. I definitely concentrated more steam in these areas but it didn't seem to have any effect on the wood.

    My current method (up to colouring)
    - strip varnish and old stain
    - steam dents out
    - bleach wood if needed
    - sand to 220 grit
    - water based wood dye whatever colour

    The more steamed areas didn't take the dye any differently to the non-steamed bits
    As suggested I would guess there is something blocking your stain. Some kind of mineral spirits might help get it out

  13. #13
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    "Sometimes it just won't take kid" the words of a late french polisher friend of mine.
    .
    Referring to hardwoods such as beech,often poor quality timber finished with a coloured laquer.

  14. #14
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    It was probably one of my videos you watched about steaming dents out of a stock from when I refurbished my HW80 stock. I steamed straight through the 2 pack finish - it does break it down but it takes a while so you arebetter off just keying it with a little abrasive paper first. The HW 80 stock once I had stripped it was indeed beech and at first I thought about doing a 'blonde ' stock but in the end I put on some stain and then sealed it in with some thinned down Tru oil. It came out pretty well in the end.
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  15. #15
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    Try mixing artists oil paints with the finishing oil your using, it'll dry as a film on the surface. Burnt umber is a good starter mixed wth Danish Oil.

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