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Thread: Lincoln Jeffries air pistol

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    While on the subject of Lincoln pistols, does anyone have any thoughts about the authenticity of this: https://imgur.com/a/uZhxJ ?
    Hello John

    I haven't heard of a boxed LJ pistol with any provenance attached to it, but it would seem likely that the pistol would have been sold in the disassembled state, so who knows.

    Regards

    Brian

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    While on the subject of Lincoln pistols, does anyone have any thoughts about the authenticity of this: https://imgur.com/a/uZhxJ ?
    Donít know but I want it!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abasmajor View Post
    Hello John

    I haven't heard of a boxed LJ pistol with any provenance attached to it, but it would seem likely that the pistol would have been sold in the disassembled state, so who knows.

    Regards

    Brian
    You are right Brian, and as far as I know a genuine Lincoln box has never been reported, always assuming that they ever existed. A confirmed box would be a major first.

    This particular example was shown to me some years ago by an overseas collector, who had been offered it as genuine and who wanted my advice on its authenticity. As I only had this picture to go on, all I could suggest was the ultraviolet test (on the dodgy label), which if the label glowed bright blue would prove it was made on post-1950 paper. Unfortunately I never heard back so I do not know if any conclusion was ever reached. The box never surfaced again.

    Can anyone offer any suggestions about possible pros and cons for authenticity based on what little can be gleaned from the rather poor picture?

  4. #19
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    The condition of the box looks far too good, for cardboard which is getting on for 100 years old? Also said condition is out of sync with the condition of the pistol which looks quite mediocre - either the box should be much tattier, or the pistol mint?

    If you lifted the pistol from the box you would be able to tell in an instant whether that gun had lived in that box for all time, just by looking at the inevitable scuff marks inside?
    Also as has been said already, the fact the gun is part disassembled is not a good sign of authenticity.
    Apart from all that it looks great!

  5. #20
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    Good points Chris, although I don't think the fact that the gun is packed in broken down form is necessarily a negative as the Lincoln was designed to be broken down and reassembled easily. Also, if you think about of it, a box that would take the intact pistol would be massive with a lot of empty space.

    I can't understand why the label is so faded compared to the general box condition. It's amost as though someone has had a go with felt tip pens and then left it in the sun to "age". Labels are always printed with pigment inks which do not fade anywhere near as easily as pen inks.

  6. #21
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    My thoughts the same as Chris FWIW. The label doesn't seem to match the paper beneath it at all, either in age or design. If I owned it, I may be more of a believer, but since I don't, I'm not.
    Vintage Airgun Gallery ... Vintage BSA Forum
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  7. #22
    micky2 is offline The collector formerly known as micky
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    l agree with the above coments that it looks to good for a nearly 100 years old box and l would have thought that there would have been some rubing on the inside blue paper by the breech. but having said that it still looks a nice box.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    Good points Chris, although I don't think the fact that the gun is packed in broken down form is necessarily a negative as the Lincoln was designed to be broken down and reassembled easily. Also, if you think about of it, a box that would take the intact pistol would be massive with a lot of empty space.

    I can't understand why the label is so faded compared to the general box condition. It's amost as though someone has had a go with felt tip pens and then left it in the sun to "age". Labels are always printed with pigment inks which do not fade anywhere near as easily as pen inks.
    I now remember seeing a boxed Lincoln 'Scout' air pistol with a label very similar in style to that pictured. If anyone has a boxed 'Scout', perhaps they could let us see a picture to confirm or refute my aging memory.

    Regards
    Brian

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abasmajor View Post
    I now remember seeing a boxed Lincoln 'Scout' air pistol with a label very similar in style to that pictured. If anyone has a boxed 'Scout', perhaps they could let us see a picture to confirm or refute my aging memory.

    Regards
    Brian
    You're probably thinking of this, Brian, and I'm pretty sure it's not genuine.
    Vintage Airgun Gallery ... Vintage BSA Forum
    ..Above links posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    You're probably thinking of this, Brian, and I'm pretty sure it's not genuine.
    Hello Danny

    A search through my reference sources has now identified the source as coming from a book relating to Gat air pistols by Malcolm Atkins (no relation to JA). The box featured in the book does look very similar to the one in the gallery.

    Regards
    Brian
    Last edited by Abasmajor; 06-12-2017 at 05:29 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    You're probably thinking of this, Brian, and I'm pretty sure it's not genuine.


    The Scout box is as much a mystery as the Lincoln’s. The only box I have come across was first shown (interior only) in John Atkins’ Airgunner article of May, 2000. When the box pictured in the Gallery appeared, from a different source, close examination showed that it was definitely the same box as the one in Airgunner. Like the so-called Lincoln box, the label is set in the centre of the box and badly faded. Does this provide evidence that the Lincoln box may be genuine after all, or are we dealing with two made-up boxes?
    I do know that the box pictured in Malcolm Atkins' book is the same one.

    I would be very interested to know why you think the Scout box may be fake, Danny?
    Regards,
    John

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    The Scout box is as much a mystery as the Lincoln’s. The only box I have come across was first shown (interior only) in John Atkins’ Airgunner article of May, 2000. When the box pictured in the Gallery appeared, from a different source, close examination showed that it was definitely the same box as the one in Airgunner. Like the so-called Lincoln box, the label is set in the centre of the box and badly faded. Does this provide evidence that the Lincoln box may be genuine after all, or are we dealing with two made-up boxes?

    I would be very interested to know why you think the Scout box may be fake, Danny.
    Regards,
    John
    John I think the box label is a cropped copy of part of the accompanying advert - it's possible that the makers used the same artwork for the two, but it makes me skeptical.
    Vintage Airgun Gallery ... Vintage BSA Forum
    ..Above links posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    John I think the box label is a cropped copy of part of the accompanying advert - it's possible that the makers used the same artwork for the two, but it makes me skeptical.
    Yes, I can see what you mean. However, the owner back in 2000 infomed me that the box label was coloured with a yellow backgound and blue and black lettering and artwork. The leaflet in the box is obviously monochrome. There does seem to be some residual colour on the label pictured in the Gallery, although it is badly faded.

    I think the jury is still out on this. Either some people have been busy with Photoshop or felt tip pens and both boxes are not right, or Lincoln Jeffries used a very cheapskate printers for his box labels! I would love the chance to examine both boxes in the flesh.

  14. #29
    micky2 is offline The collector formerly known as micky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    You're probably thinking of this, Brian, and I'm pretty sure it's not genuine.
    Hi Danny is that the same one that is in the encylopedia of air pistols.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by micky2 View Post
    Hi Danny is that the same one that is in the encylopedia of air pistols.
    I can answer that one for you Micky. It is the same box, but I must admit that I had to Photoshop the image drastically as I only had a very poor picture and the label was very indistinct. So the result was more of a representation than the real thing.

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