Its been a while....now about this pneumatic 2200?

[Gamocfx]

Hi Chaps,

I have been popping in here regularly to have a quick read but work and a house move has prevented further involvement or even time to look at any guns. Until now!

Digging around I have pulled out possibly the least desirable gun of all time? A Crosman 2200 "Magnum" with plastic stock. My version has what looks like a silencer but who knows what it is. My question is as this rifle has never filled with air what do I replace? Can the offending part be bought as a whole and easily fitted? This model is stamped Fairport NY and looks sturdier than other Crosmans that I have seen.

Also in relation to the above has anyone got a cheap wood stock version of this rifle? I used to have one and deeply regret parting with it. As a teenager this was on my wish list (well the Whalley version) but I must have had more energy then as all that pumping seems too tiring now.

Whilst on the subject of undesirable guns does anyone ever plink with a Daisy pump up? I have an advert for a double barrel Daisy BB gun from the 60s....I have never seen one-anyone out there have one?

Well its good to be back and fiddling about with guns, even one as bargain basement as this one. Be interesting to hear if it is repairable.

Thanks in advance.

[Phil Russell]

Ah ... the 2200. That brings back memories. I thought I had put a strip guide in 'Idiots Guide' sticky on here but maybe not. I do have notes on the strip / rebuild though if they would help. Maybe I should add them to Idiots.
From memory I think an issue can be the valve unit if you are unlucky to have a dodgy one. I tried to get one but could only get it via an RFD here. In the end I went to Crosman in USA, or maybe it was a US dealer, and got one delivered to me. But take care as I think various valve units were used in USA, Canada and maybe another place and in the event, I got the wrong one. My problem was, however, the blow off valve and I managed to mend it.
My repaired rifle was not bad but not as good as I hoped. But nevertheless I had fun.
Regarding a Daisy pump up. My daughter has an 880, among the first rifles she used ( under supervision of course) and went on to compete in the UKAHFT with it one year. She did remarkably well, beating several pcp shooters along the way. Output was, if I remember correctly, about 7ftlb but it may have been a little higher.
Cheers, Phil

[Gamocfx]

Hi Phil, your notes would be very helpful though I may bite the bullet and ask a local dealer to fix it if they can. I am amazed that your daughter used the Daisy in competition....that is so cool! There should be a class for pump ups on their own, I remember mine as being fairly accurate but that was back in the late 70s.

Crosmans look like a nightmare to work on even GGGR winces when I mention them to him

[Phil Russell]

OK ... my notes now added to Idiots Guide as post 181. Not sure why I did not add them before, maybe I thought the rifle was too new. If so, apologies to Guy for 'corrupting' the intention of Idiots. Having reread my notes on the 2200 I note that on my rifle a few parts had been fitted incorrectly by a previous owner which explained, in the main, why it did not work properly ... it was an auction buy.
My daughter had tremendous fun with her Daisy 880. She did not gain a top place in the UKAHFT but I recall she was not last in the class either. She even got herself a fleece with DAISY on the back ... but her arms never recovered .... and maybe the continual clack-clack-clack put other shooters off!
Personally I have used a Crosman 760 for close range (up to 10 yards) rat elimination with great success. Recently, however, I have used an AA S400 as it was quicker to bring into 'battery'.
Cheers, Phil

[Inspector 71]

Is the silencer unfinished with holes drilled axially?

[--ped--]

2200 is fairly easy to reseal your areas that could be at fault for not building air up are
1 pump cup
2 valve o rings (bs111 tube seal and bs012 inner case seal)
3 stem seal (the early ones are obsolete but a 2100 stem can be used and I often fit 1377 ones usually without shortening the stem and find it still dumps all the air even though it will reduce hammer stroke)
4 blow of valve under valve
if the gun pumps but does not build anymore pressure up after the first then it's the check valve easy to check as the pump arm will open it's self if the pump arm is opened so it's not cammed over
if your after a wooden stock the model 1 first model is a 2200 in all but name and had wood furniture and you can get a wooden stock and pump arm from a chap on the GTA forum
you haven't missed anything with a whaley as they're very badly made and based on a poor model I made an ally and stainless probe for mine as the plastic ones where easily ,I also tuned it to be fully pumped per shot rather than the air conserving design

[Gamocfx]

I am blown away (again) by the depth of knowledge on here. Ped, there seems to be no pressure at all when pumping so I will eliminate from there onwards. I will also have a look at the idiots guide.

The silencer is a solid little thing 7.5cm long that seems to screw/fit onto the plastic housing for the sight barrel end.

This is useful stuff guys thank you.

[Geezer]

"Least desirable gun of all time"?

Lightweight, cheap, handles well, hits 12ft-lbs. Classic all-American looks.

OK they are very plasticky, the barrel can wobble about (that can be fixed), the trigger is awful, and loading pellets is a knack you have to learn rather than easy. A Sheridan they are not.

Anyway, I have a chromed one and a wood one and I like both. Good, honest cheap guns, and nice as plinkers on 3 easy pumps.

There are two wood stock versions. The original was the Model 1 back in the 80s, with a nifty Williams rear sight. Around 2000, Crosman brought out the 2200W for a few years with a similar wood stock but the same crappy rear sight as the standard 2200.

The Whaley and Marshall Crosmans of the 70s were a model 760 action fitted with a model 1400 pump tube and arm, and then dosed with a colossal amount of hype bordering on lying, assisted by Rod Lynton's magazine reviews which had more than an air of fiction about them.

I am restraining myself from starting a thread about the "least desirable air gun of all time" as it would doubtless fill up with jokers saying "Daystate", "HW35", and so on. When the correct answer is IGI/Gun Toys "Panther" RO72. Christ, I own one of those. Why?

[Gamocfx]

Sorry for any offence Geezer, I had the 2200W and as I said deeply regret letting it go. OK not the worst air rifle of all time....possibly the most under appreciated? Either way I will be spending some time money and effort trying to get it back up and running. I had this at the same time as a Daisy and remember fondly having fun with both. The Whalley became a fixation for me but out of reach financially as I was still at school.

It would be interesting to get an actual review of a Whalley now-are there any left? To see what they are really capable of.

[Geezer]

Sorry for any offence Geezer, I had the 2200W and as I said deeply regret letting it go. OK not the worst air rifle of all time....possibly the most under appreciated? Either way I will be spending some time money and effort trying to get it back up and running. I had this at the same time as a Daisy and remember fondly having fun with both. The Whalley became a fixation for me but out of reach financially as I was still at school.

It would be interesting to get an actual review of a Whalley now-are there any left? To see what they are really capable of.

No problem, old chap.

I have never had a Whaley, but judging on what I have heard from others that I trust, they really did not live up to the hype. And in mechanical terms, they were a cheap pumper with a bit more oomph, but no real attention given to its design limitations.

As I suggested above, contemporary reviews are generally held to be a more than a bit over-favourable.

[--ped--]

I have a whaley 761xl and mine wasn't made with a 140/1400 tube but is a brass tube version but does use 1400 arm and piston
when I got it ,it didn't work piston rod was bent as they used a bit of 1/4" threaded bar unable to stand the pressure
on further disassembly I found the valve pinning drilled too far forward so that the valve oring was creeping into hole so I had to shim the valve forwards and replace the valve front with a 1300 one I had spare(at some point i'll make a new valve front )
the probe and cocking slide being plastic were badly worn with the area that engaged the hammer almost worn out so I made one from scratch from ally and stainless adding a barrel seal by taking 1.5mm of the barrel which allowed an o ring to be fitted in the barrel/tp block
on firing it was apparent that the air conserving idea wasn't right good so I fitted high pressure valve internals from an early 1322 and changed the hammer spring to a 2200 one so it suffered valve lock if anyone tried to pump it over the limit
in summary they took a low end crosman 760/761 and fitted earlier quality crosman parts with poor design and workmanship being used to assemble them where in reality the gun they were trying to make already existed in the shape of the Sheridan ,having said that I wouldn't sell my whaley has it has grown on me now I've altered it

[le frelon]

With regard to the double barrel Daisy, if you mean the side by side version? then the one I have is the Model 21. This is shotgun looky likey 410/12G. Both barrels have the usual BB insert for multiple shots, it's cocked by breaking the breech to load the springs (not a pump up) and with 2 triggers it looks very much like the real deal.
Mine is the plastic stock/forend model. Some were produced (25? ) with wood stocks and forend and are very rare. Even the plasticy ones are scarce, especially in the uk. Current values are quite wide but I have seen these go for as much as GBP600, the mahogany salesman's samples can be quite ridiculously priced but again there's very few out there.
These things are great fun and very useful as a trainer. Not powerful and not particularly accurate but there's something rather inviting about 2 triggers and a double hit on a tin can!

There was one at the last Kempton fair, I didn't see it, but would be very interested to know what if went for. Mine will probably be up for grabs at the next one.

Carl

[johnbaz]

Hi

I had a Crosman model one, It's the first gun in the this pic, Loved that gun but a mate begged it from me, He still has it as far as I know so I may be able to buy it back from him!!
Sorry, I don't have any better pics as these were before Digtal cameras were aqailable!




I also had another Crosman multipump but for the life of me, I can't remember the designation!, May have been 761 I think, It was very similar to the mod 1 but had plastic stocks, I brought some scrap mahogany from work and made real wood stocks for it, Can't remember if I made a forestock as only the rear is fitted in this pic!

It's the one leaning on the right side of the cab..




By the way, How long have we been able to post pics directly in the Gentlemans corner? I only just noticed the option was here!!


John

[--ped--]

one in the last pic John is either a 766 a 2100/ 2200 from that angle I can't tell but would suspect a screen printed 2100/2200 by the plastic colour

[Hsing-ee]

There are a couple of threads on the Whaley and Marshall Crosman 760 conversions somewhere on here.

The Whaley was hyped way beyond belief, and Rod Lynton later confessed to faking the accuracy test, shooting the target cards at short range. The bulldust about using it as an 'air shotgun' by shoving four steel BBs up the spout would have been laughed out of the pub these days. It would be worth putting a link to the review to see what credulous dolts we were in 1980.

I too lusted after one after reading the reports in AGW. Then I met one in the monkey-metal. What an appalling piece of crap! It was even worse than my Crosman 766, but at least that only cost £36 not £90 or whatever inflated price they were charging.

In reality, aside from the match rifles of the time, by a massive margin the best rifles made were the Feinwerkbau Sport and the Weihrauch HW35.

Even the Original 45 was a bit crap and the 'Sport and the 35 were only really matched by the HW80 in the couple of years before the 77 came out.

From the late 60s to the early 1980s the ONLY sporting rifle worth lusting over was the FWB Sport, and crap like the Whaley Crosman which cost nearly the same amount were cynical insults to the consumer. But the Sport seemed dull in comparison... if you read the rags.