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Thread: Matching oil container for a 1926 Webley pistol would be glass?

  1. #16
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    Hi,

    Thanks for posting the picture.

    Given that the Mk2 Target & Mk1 Ser Nos were contiguous, there probably wasn't much of a gap between the specific reference to Webley No 2 oil on my label (24588) and the lack of a specific reference on your example (21454).

    Interestingly, I notice some of the other wording on the later instructions has also changed slightly from the wording in relation to your pistol.

    It seems we learn something new every day.

    Regards
    Brian
    Last edited by Abasmajor; 15-12-2017 at 06:01 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abasmajor View Post
    Hi,

    Thanks for posting the picture.

    Given that the Mk2 Target & Mk1 Ser Nos were contiguous, there probably wasn't much of a gap between the specific reference to Webley No 2 oil on my label (24588) and the lack of a specific reference on your example (21454).

    Interestingly, I notice the wording on the later instructions has also changed slightly from the wording in relation to your pistol.

    It seems we learn something new every day.

    Regards
    Brian
    Would make some sense that when they first produced the new piston ring system they were not yet set or possibly thought through that they would now offer two oils called 1 & 2? They couldn’t mention in the instruction something they didn’t yet offer and calling for oil would lead people to Mark 1 Neatsfoot. Seems so odd they just dropped the oil instruction since it is essential for proper functioning? Kind of makes me wonder what the earliest serial number is on the Target? Someone here mentioned they had 14154. Got Bruce’s book on the way to feed my current need for Webley trivia. Drilling down on this stuff becomes a desease with no cure! Lol

    PS: maybe they didn’t mention any oil because at that time they would of had to say, 30 weight motor oil: kind of messes with their future selling of their special number 2?
    Last edited by 45flint; 15-12-2017 at 02:44 PM.

  3. #18
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    We will probably never know the exact number of Mk2 Target pistols produced, but there is an assumption that they were probably made in similar quantities to the other so called deluxe model, the Straight Grip Senior which would mean that only approximately 6000-7000 were likely to have ever been produced.

    I believe I read somewhere that Ser Nos for the Mk2 target started at around 10000, so given the relatively short production period, quite a rare air pistol.

    You won't regret obtaining a copy of Gordon Bruce's book by the way which represents the bible for all Webley air pistol aficionados.

    Regards
    Brian
    Last edited by Abasmajor; 15-12-2017 at 06:03 PM.

  4. #19
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    Thanks for posting the image of the box instructions. Interesting the instructions just refer to "a few spots of oil" rather than any particular type.

    Webley did amend the instructions for Mk 1 air pistols several times and it seems they did the same with the Mk 11 as well. That's the first example I have seen, where no particular type of oil is recommended and it stands to reason this would have been the earliest type.

    On a slightly different note, you have a fine boxed Webley in the original box. Personally I would store/display the pistol with the original box rather than case it. My box is not quite as clean, so I feel somewhat envious of your very fortunate find!

    Kind regards,

    John

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josie & John View Post
    Thanks for posting the image of the box instructions. Interesting the instructions just refer to "a few spots of oil" rather than any particular type.

    Webley did amend the instructions for Mk 1 air pistols several times and it seems they did the same with the Mk 11 as well. That's the first example I have seen, where no particular type of oil is recommended and it stands to reason this would have been the earliest type.

    On a slightly different note, you have a fine boxed Webley in the original box. Personally I would store/display the pistol with the original box rather than case it. My box is not quite as clean, so I feel somewhat envious of your very fortunate find!

    Kind regards,

    John
    I actually missed the “few spots of oil”! I hear you about the box but it’s sides have been totally wrapped in tan tape that must have been done many years ago, it dried out and really can’t be removed. Fortunately the best parts of the box are the top and inner top instructions. It just seems the gun is too nice for the box? Also want to have fun collecting a old pellet container, oil bottle and cleaning brush. I tend to store all my boxes out of harms way. I started casing my Civil War percussion revolvers as I collected them years ago, love the look. It it doesn’t come up to expectation the box will still be there.

    Here’s a Walther I cased: https://i.imgur.com/4EGtoOo.jpg
    Last edited by 45flint; 16-12-2017 at 03:03 AM.

  6. #21
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    That is a very nice wooden box that your LP53 resides in. Did you make it?

  7. #22
    ccdjg is online now Airgun Alchemist, Collector and Scribe
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45flint View Post
    I actually missed the “few spots of oil”! I hear you about the box but it’s sides have been totally wrapped in tan tape that must have been done many years ago, it dried out and really can’t be removed. Fortunately the best parts of the box are the top and inner top instructions. It just seems the gun is too nice for the box? Also want to have fun collecting a old pellet container, oil bottle and cleaning brush. I tend to store all my boxes out of harms way. I started casing my Civil War percussion revolvers as I collected them years ago, love the look. It it doesn’t come up to expectation the box will still be there.

    Here’s a Walther I cased: https://i.imgur.com/4EGtoOo.jpg

    You could try methylene chloride (aka dichloromethane) to get the tape off. You can buy it on the bay, at least in the UK. I bought a boxed Hy-score from the US where the lid was completely covered in tan tape. After carefully sponging and soaking it for while with the solvent the tape peeled off OK without any damage to the underlying cardboard. or printing. You can just about see lines where the tape edges came, but the the result was a vast improvement over how it looked when first received. https://imgur.com/a/OdSvj. The label inside the lid was completely unaffected, except that the solvent removed some old oil and grease stains and its apperance was actually improved. https://imgur.com/a/F5rCf


    The methylene chloride is a powerful solvent for paint and the type of adhesive used on sticky tapes, but doesn't attack paper, cardboard, printing inks and pigments or water-based adhesives if used carefully. It evaporates quickly with no residues. The downside is that it is toxic if breathed in large amounts so best used outside or in a large room.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45flint View Post
    Here are the instructions, I hope I didn’t read it incorrectly, lol. The serial number of the gun is there in pencil.

    https://i.imgur.com/Qjnj4ia.jpg
    To my mind the freshness of these instructions is more evidence of the originality of your pistol. Obviously stored in optimum conditions.
    Vintage Airguns Gallery
    ..Above link posted with permission from Gareth W-B
    In British slang an anorak is a person who has a very strong interest in niche subjects.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvin View Post
    To my mind the freshness of these instructions is more evidence of the originality of your pistol. Obviously stored in optimum conditions.
    You would make Sherlock Holmes proud, never put that together. You got me in the detective mood, if you look closely in the upper left corner there is what appears to be just a corner of a instruction booklet? in red printing that ended up adhereing to the box. I assume there was a booklet included back then? Any examples out there?
    Last edited by 45flint; 16-12-2017 at 02:18 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccdjg View Post
    You could try methylene chloride (aka dichloromethane) to get the tape off. You can buy it on the bay, at least in the UK. I bought a boxed Hy-score from the US where the lid was completely covered in tan tape. After carefully sponging and soaking it for while with the solvent the tape peeled off OK without any damage to the underlying cardboard. or printing. You can just about see lines where the tape edges came, but the the result was a vast improvement over how it looked when first received. https://imgur.com/a/OdSvj. The label inside the lid was completely unaffected, except that the solvent removed some old oil and grease stains and its apperance was actually improved. https://imgur.com/a/F5rCf


    The methylene chloride is a powerful solvent for paint and the type of adhesive used on sticky tapes, but doesn't attack paper, cardboard, printing inks and pigments or water-based adhesives if used carefully. It evaporates quickly with no residues. The downside is that it is toxic if breathed in large amounts so best used outside or in a large room.
    Awesome, appreciate the thought, I will give it a try in Spring when I can get outside. If I could get the tape off successfully it would be something special. Thanks

    By the way that Hy-score multi barrel Sportster is the final gun on my Hyscore list to obtain. Been looking for a while and I’m in the country where they were made. That is a great example and your restoration of the box adds a lot. If I could do the same a box display might be more compelling. I just can’t stand looking at that tape!, you have given me hope.
    Last edited by 45flint; 16-12-2017 at 01:58 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by grantb View Post
    That is a very nice wooden box that your LP53 resides in. Did you make it?
    No bought from a guy in Canada that is amazing. Here is the whole case. I have a passion for figured wood. You should see my guitars but that’s for another forum, lol.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/xxWP2
    Last edited by 45flint; 16-12-2017 at 02:12 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45flint View Post
    You would make Sherlock Holmes proud, never put that together. You got me in the detective mood, if you look closely in the upper left corner there is what appears to be just a corner of a instruction booklet? in red printing that ended up adhereing to the box. I assume there was a booklet included back then? Any examples out there?
    I also have the remains of what seems to be an additional warning label printed in red on the inside face of the box lid which includes the words" important" and "adjustment", so most likely a further warning emphasising the care necessary when making trigger adjustments lest it be missed during a cursory reading of the other instructions.

    Regards
    Brian
    Last edited by Abasmajor; 16-12-2017 at 03:04 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45flint View Post
    You would make Sherlock Holmes proud, never put that together. You got me in the detective mood, if you look closely in the upper left corner there is what appears to be just a corner of a instruction booklet? in red printing that ended up adhereing to the box. I assume there was a booklet included back then? Any examples out there?
    Not quite a booklet but a warning label, as Abasmajor suggests. It warned owners not to adjust the trigger pull weight too light as that could result in a negligent discharge.

    The Mk 11 originally came with a folded sheet, which advertised the pistol's best features. Coincidentally mine must have been exported to the States and back again as prices are in U.S. $. I obtained it from Troubledshooter and a scan may well be included on his excellent signature site.

    Mk 1 and Mk 11 pistols were numbered concurrently from the same serial number range and the earliest number known to me presently is 10105, which was pictured in the June 1978 issue of Guns Review by Mark Newcomer.

    I think you will enjoy the Gordon Bruce book.

    Kind regards,

    John

  14. #29
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    I'm sure Troubledshooter won't mind me posting this link to a Webley Mk2 Target pamphlet link from his excellent site.

    http://mynetimages.com/album/Trouble...l?img=e1765e8f

    Brian

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abasmajor View Post
    I'm sure Troubledshooter won't mind me posting this link to a Webley Mk2 Target pamphlet link from his excellent site.

    http://mynetimages.com/album/Trouble...l?img=e1765e8f

    Brian
    Wow thanks much, I can return the favor in a couple days, just found something I thought would be impossible to find, maybe you guys have seen it, and you’ll burst my bubble. Lol

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