Choke removal and accuracy.

[look no hands]

I've shortened many barrels over the years (on springers) and experienced no loss in accuracy.

Silly question but where these barrels with chokes?

Pete

[robs5230]

Weihrauch and Diana barrels. The last time the subject of choked barrels came up regarding HW, I was informed all HW barrels are choked.
I've shortened HW80 barrels to 10" without losing accuracy.

[RobF]

It's impossible to say unless people come up with a before and after with actual photos. Anything else is no better than asking a bloke down the pub.

[robs5230]

It's impossible to say unless people come up with a before and after with actual photos. Anything else is no better than asking a bloke down the pub.

No chance of any pics of mine. I was doing this before computers were mainstream and digital cameras were only seen on star trek.
It may be impossible for you to say if you haven't done it. Others have.

[Shed tuner]

It just depends how good and consistent the bore is. If it's decent, then it'll probably be fine, and could even improve. If it has tight spots, or a tight breach, such that the muzzle is loose, it'll be crap.

Pushing a pellet very slowly through with a rod may be insightful Chopping at a tight point is also a good idea.

[32:1]

It's impossible to say unless people come up with a before and after with actual photos. Anything else is no better than asking a bloke down the pub.

Ive got a few pics of pellet tests before and after and the pellets pushed through but cant attach, and then youd have "their not true" comments

First hand experience here though and I can genuinley say Ive only ever seen improved grouping when Ive had the choke removed, and more often than not the barrel seems less pellet fussy, as above push a pellet through and feel tight/loose spots and how restrictive the choke is and take a look at your pellet.

Ive bought barrel blanks for projects and allways without choke, never had any issues. There are also choked barrels that shoot well of course, to me the choke is there to stabilise pellet before it leaves, why should it be unstable ?

Obviously when trimming a barrel down a new crown must be cut of course...

[RobF]

Ive got a few pics of pellet tests before and after and the pellets pushed through but cant attach, and then youd have "their not true" comments

First hand experience here though and I can genuinley say Ive only ever seen improved grouping when Ive had the choke removed, and more often than not the barrel seems less pellet fussy, as above push a pellet through and feel tight/loose spots and how restrictive the choke is and take a look at your pellet.

Ive bought barrel blanks for projects and allways without choke, never had any issues. There are also choked barrels that shoot well of course, to me the choke is there to stabilise pellet before it leaves, why should it be unstable ?

Obviously when trimming a barrel down a new crown must be cut of course...

I'd prefer to see groups. Pushing a pellet through doesn't mean much.

What's the baseline group and at what range?

[robs5230]

I'd prefer to see groups. Pushing a pellet through doesn't mean much.

What's the baseline group and at what range?

Not being picky here Rob, but have you got any first hand experience to contradict what either Chris or I have stated about no loss of accuracy when removing chokes ?
We've both stated our findings yet you seem to be questioning them because you "think" what we're saying is wrong.
If you do have any actual experience of losing accuracy when removing a choke,would you have any info, pics etc to show ?
That would be more useful to the OP.

On subjects like this, facts often seem to get over ruled by theory and opinion. Something that probably limits responses from those who do have the experience as they get criticised by those who dont.

Pete, looks like you'll have to chop a barrel and see for yourself.

[TonyL]

It's not something that I've ever done, so can't comment and, as has been said, would have to be verified with measured before and after results.

My guess would be that having a choke introduces consistency in barrels where the measurements elsewhere in the bore are less than perfect / ideal?

[RobF]

Not being picky here Rob, but have you got any first hand experience to contradict what either Chris or I have stated about no loss of accuracy when removing chokes ?
We've both stated our findings yet you seem to be questioning them because you "think" what we're saying is wrong.
If you do have any actual experience of losing accuracy when removing a choke,would you have any info, pics etc to show ?
That would be more useful to the OP.

On subjects like this, facts often seem to get over ruled by theory and opinion. Something that probably limits responses from those who do have the experience as they get criticised by those who dont.

Pete, looks like you'll have to chop a barrel and see for yourself.

Lol, love to see it when you are being picky . Be as picky as you like. This is about establishing facts and knowledge. Where's the harm in that?

Yes I have tested choked and non choked barrels, and I've selected choked. Yes I've got pictures of the groups that the choked barrels shoot for reference. I haven't kept the ones that weren't as good as there doesn't seem to be a point to doing that. But next time I can.

I'm asking for the evidence to support such statements. That's all.

Pushing a pellet though a barrel tells you nothing. Or ok, what does it tell you when you look at a pellet? Its got rifling marks? Yep.

So what I'm asking for is a baseline to draw conclusions from. On subjects like this, facts often seem to get swamped by people just saying things without any qualification. "Groups are better"... better than what? If you've got a group that's 2" wide at 25 yards then improving on it isn't that much of a trick and could even suggest a fault with the crown.

We had all this with the smooth twist barrels. I think it took about 2 years to find a single group picture of a .177 12ft-lb despite the threads on the subjects being awash with opinion that they were brilliant and despite competitions of any nature using 12ft-lb being a desert of anyone using them.

Here's a start on the baseline though, not sure if you can see these, the last image... (i thought attachments were working here but seems not)

https://shooting-the-breeze.com/thre...d.18696/page-4

I did neglect to note the amount of shots on that last image. It won't be less than 5. I believe its 10, but that's obviously not a definite fact, so work on it being 5+.

So is a unchoked barrel as good as that? My experience says not. I have access to barrels so can test it with group pics if you like in the future. Maybe you can do some shots with yours and see what you come up with

[look no hands]

Weihrauch and Diana barrels. The last time the subject of choked barrels came up regarding HW, I was informed all HW barrels are choked.
I've shortened HW80 barrels to 10" without losing accuracy.

The barrels I've had shortened have been BSA's and HW's, I was told by Tony Wall at SFS that HW barrels are unchocked and I can confirm that an HW95 I sent to Tony to be "Banshee'd" lost no accuracy after being shortened, I once had a choked BSA Airsporter RB2 barrel shortened and it was worse after shortening, I currently have a .22 Supersport barrel that has no felt choke (it hasn't been shortened either) which is unusual for BSA barrels as they are normally choked, I've not tried it on a rifle yet (it was a E gay purchase) but I may well put it on my Challenger as I think the .25 barrel I currently have on it will go on my new (too me) Supersport when it turns up.

Pete

[RobF]

I guess it could be down to the barrel as well.

I find LW tight all the way down to the choke where they get tighter. But I've been loaned on barrel (can't remember make) which was seemingly choked both ends, because the middle was so baggy that once past the lead in I could blow it down the barrel with my mouth.

[bozzer]

I guess it could be down to the barrel as well.

I find LW tight all the way down to the choke where they get tighter. But I've been loaned one barrel (can't remember make) which was seemingly choked both ends, because the middle was so baggy that once past the lead in I could blow it down the barrel with my mouth.

I'll guess BSA ... They fitted them as standard on the Supertens in 0.177.

[robs5230]

The barrels I've had shortened have been BSA's and HW's, I was told by Tony Wall at SFS that HW barrels are unchocked and I can confirm that an HW95 I sent to Tony to be "Banshee'd" lost no accuracy after being shortened, I once had a choked BSA Airsporter RB2 barrel shortened and it was worse after shortening, I currently have a .22 Supersport barrel that has no felt choke (it hasn't been shortened either) which is unusual for BSA barrels as they are normally choked, I've not tried it on a rifle yet (it was a E gay purchase) but I may well put it on my Challenger as I think the .25 barrel I currently have on it will go on my new (too me) Supersport when it turns up.

Pete

Funny you should say that about HW barrels not being choked. I've always believed that and stuck by my opinion that the only "choking" on HW springer barrels is imparted from the crimping of foresight grooves.
However, I was royally shot down either on here or the "other" forum less than 2 months ago by those who stated without doubt, and seemed to have some proof, that they were.
I suppose with this being in doubt, after all that, all I can say categorically is that I've shortened HW and Diana springer barrels with no loss of accuracy.

[look no hands]

Funny you should say that about HW barrels not being choked. I've always believed that and stuck by my opinion that the only "choking" on HW springer barrels is imparted from the crimping of foresight grooves.
However, I was royally shot down either on here or the "other" forum less than 2 months ago by those who stated without doubt, and seemed to have some proof, that they were.
I suppose with this being in doubt, after all that, all I can say categorically is that I've shortened HW and Diana springer barrels with no loss of accuracy.

You mention about shortening Diana barrels as well, I was very tempted to shorten the barrel on my Diana 34 but after pushing a pellet through the bore I found the tightest choke on any of my rifles, you really do have to give the pellet a really good shove to get it out the end, I'm now reluctant to do so.

Pete