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Thread: .22 v .25 recoil.

  1. #1
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    .22 v .25 recoil.

    Hi all,

    I'm sure I read on one of the many tuning threads (I think it was Jon budd who mentioned it) that .22 calibre is still the better calibre to have for less recoil, as we all know .22 is better than .177 as you need more spring to get the same power but one would think that .25 would need even less than .22 but wasn't the case.

    Do you get to a certain point with a pellet size and weight where it starts to go the other way?

    Am I correct in thinking this?

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    I think it was anctually Tony saying .25 wasn't any better than .22

    Personally I'm not sure, but the problem with .25 may be that the larger volume of air required to keep the bore pressurised to an extent that the pellet continues to accelerate the pellet might be a limiting factor at 12 FP, and this may counteract the greater surface area the air has to act over (providing more accelerative force). This clearly isn't a problem with PCPs that generally have a lot more air volume at 12 FP. ANother problem is pellets getting too heavy for springers - but I've always had fairly good results with 20 grain H&Ns and 19 grain Rhino's.
    Always looking for any cheap, interesting, knackered "project" guns. Thanks, JB.

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    My .25 springer action was set around high 10’s, but dropped to 8ftlb with a .22 barrel on it. Others have found different.

    The .25 also gained 1ftlb if the pellet was fed in backwards, seemingly there’s a lot of lost volume in the pellet skirt, which obviously increases with each mm it moves down the bore.

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    It's only a guess but possibly due to the greater weight/mass of the pellet requiring more energy before it starts to move down the bore

    As for the overall weight I did a lot of testing with my Hatsan Striker .25 and once the pellet weight reached 25gn the Muzzle Energy had plateaued and there was a steady drop off in ME with every pellet above that weight, & above 27gn energy was in freefall for the floor.
    In detail the Bisley superfield @24.3gn was still ok, but the JSB/AA @25.4gn was about 0.4ftlb down, Bisley pestcontrol @26.1gn was almost 1ftlb down, H&N ram point @27.1gn was 1.5ftlb down & Benjamin 28gn just shy of 3ftlb down.

    Interestingly at the other end of the scale the two Gamo PBA lead free at either 13.4gn or 14.4gn were also hugely down on both velocity & energy.

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    So basically then in theory because of the more power required, you can use the same spring for a .177 and a .25? (with a little bit of fine tuning here and there)

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    You’d need to try it tbh. I had virtually negative preload on an hw80 (27 or 28 coils iirc) and it gave 11+ with ftt’s, but 10’s with superfield. When I tried a .22 barrel on the action. The power dropped to around 8ftlb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shed tuner View Post
    I think it was anctually Tony saying .25 wasn't any better than .22

    Personally I'm not sure, but the problem with .25 may be that the larger volume of air required to keep the bore pressurised to an extent that the pellet continues to accelerate the pellet might be a limiting factor at 12 FP, and this may counteract the greater surface area the air has to act over (providing more accelerative force). This clearly isn't a problem with PCPs that generally have a lot more air volume at 12 FP. ANother problem is pellets getting too heavy for springers - but I've always had fairly good results with 20 grain H&Ns and 19 grain Rhino's.
    To put it simply at sub 12 ft.lbs there is just not enough energy to make good use of the .25 caliber, 20 ft.lbs is more like it. I know that some pundits have used the ultra light 19.8 grs pellets in the .25 sub 12 with some success but that is just a whisker away from a heavy .22 at 18.5 grs. Perhaps at very short ranges these guns make an effective rat killers but at 40+ yard best to look elsewhere.

    A.G

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    Quote Originally Posted by lensman57 View Post
    To put it simply at sub 12 ft.lbs there is just not enough energy to make good use of the .25 caliber, 20 ft.lbs is more like it. I know that some pundits have used the ultra light 19.8 grs pellets in the .25 sub 12 with some success but that is just a whisker away from a heavy .22 at 18.5 grs. Perhaps at very short ranges these guns make an effective rat killers but at 40+ yard best to look elsewhere.

    A.G
    I know what you mean about power and how short distance you can shoot a .25 at but boy does it make a hell of a "whack" when it hits the target.

    Pete
    Far too many rifles to list now, all mainly British but the odd pesky foreigner has snuck in

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    Quote Originally Posted by lensman57 View Post
    To put it simply at sub 12 ft.lbs there is just not enough energy to make good use of the .25 caliber, 20 ft.lbs is more like it. I know that some pundits have used the ultra light 19.8 grs pellets in the .25 sub 12 with some success but that is just a whisker away from a heavy .22 at 18.5 grs. Perhaps at very short ranges these guns make an effective rat killers but at 40+ yard best to look elsewhere.

    A.G
    Personally speaking I'd say for regular 40+yds you need FAC whatever cal it is.
    My Hatsan .25 1/2" pbr was 9-28yds.

  10. #10
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    I have a 12 ft/lb Supersport in .25. It's probably the most civilised gun I own to shoot regarding recoil. Shoots with a nice gentle thud. I've found it by far the most effective tool for farm yard ratting. I doubt I've ever taken a shot at 40 yards with it, probably no more than 20 to be honest. For that kind of shooting having more power would be no use at all, so I think 12 ft/lb .25 guns do have a place!

    Cheers
    Greg

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    The spring feels the same but the larger calibre ends up with lower pressure in the cylinder as the space behind the pellet is bigger as it moves down the barrel (bigger barrel cross sectional area). The pressure in the cylinder times the cross sectional area of the cylinder gives a force forwards, which makes up a big part of recoil. You have to think of it as a dynamic system where the air in the barrel and cylinder interact and the recoil forces are mainly made up of the spring pushing backwards and the air in the cylinder pushing forwards.

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