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Thread: Spring gun revival (again.....)

  1. #91
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    anyone have contact details for Paul short please?
    Old Gits FT springer World champion 2017

  2. #92
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    Paul Short has a Facebook page apparently and you will be able to contact him via that. If that fails his contact details can be found on STB (via some research.)

    Phil Russel made an excellent point regarding how many of us like to try and maximise the performance of all of our guns, particularly springers, by tuning, fitting custom stocks and generally attempting to make them as recoil friendly as possible. I am as guilty as most other enthusiasts I suspect of trying to iron out the very thing that makes the springer so challenging to shoot, recoil. There again, is it really the recoil that we are trying to remove? The more I think about it, what I am after personally is an improved shot cycle that makes the gun more enjoyable to shoot I reckon. The reason i mention this is due to me recently acquiring myself a brand new TX. Out of the box, the gun is an absolute joy to shoot. So much so that rather than purchase the usual set of upgraded internals from one of the many tuning houses, I have decided to leave it absolutely standard and haven't even had to adjust the trigger.

    My reason for mentioning this is that for anybody considering the purchase of a springer, do not presume that it is necessary to spend more on getting it shooting well. Most of the decent quality guns are more than capable of providing the owner with an enjoyable gun that is more than accurate enough for anything required of it.

    I also own a couple of highly tuned springers that are also very nice to shoot. Both cost more than a standard gun, but that doesn't mean a standard gun is any less enjoyable to use.

    I still think that there appears to be a genuine resurgence in the use of spring powered rifles. If I hadnt spent so many decades hunting rabbits with an HW80, I might have discovered target shooting at an age when I would have been able to at least try to approach the leading shots of the day. Is it just me trying to rekindle my youth with my promotion of spring powered rifles? I think the majority of shooters, particularly those new to the sport, appreciate the available accuracy of a PCP as has been mentioned many times on this thread. It would appear that the manufacturers think that springers are very much enjoying an upturn in popularity as not a month seems to go by without another release, particularly in the medium and lower price points. I think it is time for one of the "big" spring gun manufacturers to release something new for us old hands. The last one of note I can remember was the Walther LGU/LGV.

    Anyway, I hope you all enjoy your shooting as much as I have been doing recently!

    Andy
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amac View Post
    My reason for mentioning this is that for anybody considering the purchase of a springer, do not presume that it is necessary to spend more on getting it shooting well. Most of the decent quality guns are more than capable of providing the owner with an enjoyable gun that is more than accurate enough for anything required of it.

    Andy
    I've repeated this many times on here ...

    I love the springer threads and all the tuning talk. I've repeatedly said that an out of the box 'decent' springer will be far more capable than 99% of springer shooters will ever be. They will give you the accuracy that you will need in any hunting or comp situation if the shooter can do their bit. Getting the rifle to fit properly, and then learning how to shoot it, is probably far more important than trying to make it shoot with less recoil.

    The best tunes will maybe tighten the groups at a certain range by a small percentage. That small percentage is miniscule compared to the errors in most springer shooters techniques.

    I remember watching a table tennis demo where some world champ was playing decent league players with a frying pan and beating them. I often laugh at the comments by the Aussie cricketers when they refer to Adam Gilchrist. Most league players, let alone test cricketers, spend a fortune on bats and they will go to a shop and pick up dozens of bats until they feel they have the one that suits them perfectly. Gilchrist would just walk through the changing room on his way out to bat and just pick up anyone's bat and go out and smash the ball everywhere. The point is obvious.

    I remember going to a local FT club with a springer. I wasn't doing that well. A guy, who became a good friend of mine, Keith Mepham, who ran a custom air rifle shop, said to me " I can keep tuning this rifle all you want ... but before you decide to keep spending money on it I suggest you let an experienced springer shooter show you what it is capable of in it's current state ". I thought they were harsh words but it was the best advice I ever had re springer shooting.

    I keep asking for someone to do this but I'll probably have to do it myself. Take one of my 77's. Put in basic internals. Shoot groups at a range and maybe do it in a variety of body positions. Then swap the internals for a set of fully tuned ones and, despite the probable smoother cocking/shooting cycle, see what the actual real life difference is on the targets. I've had basic rifles, and certainly basic home 'polished' ones, doing 18mm at 45 yards and an inch at 55 yards rested. How much better than that do you need, especially when trying to shoot standing or kneeling the groups open right up and wind drifts the pellets up to several inches. Always seemed to me that learning technique and wind was far more important than spending money trying to make a 18mm group 16mm at 45 yards.
    Last edited by bozzer; 11-01-2018 at 09:35 AM.

  4. #94
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    I think the springer revival shows some of the depth of our sport, it's not the latest greatest PCP rifle completely that rules our sport, there is actually a sense of spirituality in taking an accurate shot where the mental reward is equal to the effort put into the shot.
    I think to get the most enjoyment out of air rifle shooting then shooting both springers and PCP's is the way to go, not only do both type of actions have enough charisma and character to enjoy in their own right, but it seems to me each type of action enhances the use of the other.
    I wonder if an accurate, recoiling PCP would be as rewarding to shoot as a springer?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by bozzer View Post
    I keep asking for someone to do this but I'll probably have to do it myself. Take one of my 77's. Put in basic internals. Shoot groups at a range and maybe do it in a variety of body positions. Then swap the internals for a set of fully tuned ones and, despite the probable smoother cocking/shooting cycle, see what the actual real life difference is on the targets. I've had basic rifles, and certainly basic home 'polished' ones, doing 18mm at 45 yards and an inch at 55 yards rested. How much better than that do you need, especially when trying to shoot standing or kneeling the groups open right up and wind drifts the pellets up to several inches. Always seemed to me that learning technique and wind was far more important than spending money trying to make a 18mm group 16mm at 45 yards.
    Agree 100%. I'm starting to think the main value of tuning, beyond a minimum level of making the rifle shoot consistently, is in the mind. I don't just mean the placebo effect, although that is likely to play a part if you've paid úlots for the latest and greatest tune, or (possibly even more so) if you've put your own effort and skills in to a great tune.

    If tuning makes the shot cycle more pleasant, you enjoy shooting it more, so you are more inclined to put the effort into making each shot the best. Also the more you enjoy shooting it, the more you will shoot it, the more you learn it. If results improve then you enjoy it even more... a positive feedback cycle. Conversely, if it feels unpleasant in any way, you can be put off from making the best shot you can, and results deteriorate --> negative feedback cycle.

  6. #96
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    I can't argue with that Adam.

    Maybe one can also add that if someone isn't getting great results with a springer then there may be a little voice in the back of their mind that says " This gun just doesn't feel right ". So if getting it checked out and tuned makes them accept that the rifle is now spot on, so it's up to them to put the work in, then that alone is money well spent.

    I fear in a lot of cases though a lot of springer shooters still blame that tune and think that a tune from another tuner, or a different set of internals, will put things right. If tuning does all the things that you mention then it's a worthwhile effort ... but at some point the shooter has to accept that it's hard work and time that tightens those groups up.

  7. #97
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    Interesting thoughts on tuning in the previous few threads. For a modern springer the one thing that annoys me if I own the rifle is 'boing'. My 77k boinged when new all those years ago so I cleaned it up, added beer can spring sleeve and hey presto, no more boing. Later I added a delrin guide and after that a top hat; both home made. As hinted above, I do not think a 'prefessional tune' would give me a sweeter, more accurate rifle but I accept that many people do not have the aptitude or facilities to work on their rifles other than to add a 'tuning kit'.
    For older rifles, my attitude changes somewhat. For something like an Airsporter or Mercury I will clean it up and maybe add a piston sleeve if it boings but other parts remain as original. For older rifles e.g. early Diana 27, they get a clean but nothing added. For these latter rifles the 'firing experience' is all part of the package.
    Cheers, Phil

  8. #98
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    Again, some excellent posts and points made on what is turning out to be a most epic and enjoyable thread.
    THE BOINGER BASH AT QUIGLEY HOLLOW. MAKING GREAT MEMORIES SINCE 15th JUNE, 2013.
    NEXT EVENT :- SEPT. 8/9, 2018. BOING!!

  9. #99
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    And (and sorry to take advantage and try to promote a certain "you know what"), many posters on this thread, people who so obviously appreciate this glorious powerplant, are yet to attend a certain little event.

    Please, please, I urge you to, one day, come to a Boinger Bash at Quigley Hollow where you'll meet so many nice and like-minded people worshipping the humble Boinger in a relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere in a beautiful part of the English countryside.
    THE BOINGER BASH AT QUIGLEY HOLLOW. MAKING GREAT MEMORIES SINCE 15th JUNE, 2013.
    NEXT EVENT :- SEPT. 8/9, 2018. BOING!!

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by bozzer View Post
    I've repeated this many times on here ...

    I love the springer threads and all the tuning talk. I've repeatedly said that an out of the box 'decent' springer will be far more capable than 99% of springer shooters will ever be. They will give you the accuracy that you will need in any hunting or comp situation if the shooter can do their bit. Getting the rifle to fit properly, and then learning how to shoot it, is probably far more important than trying to make it shoot with less recoil.

    The best tunes will maybe tighten the groups at a certain range by a small percentage. That small percentage is miniscule compared to the errors in most springer shooters techniques.

    I remember watching a table tennis demo where some world champ was playing decent league players with a frying pan and beating them. I often laugh at the comments by the Aussie cricketers when they refer to Adam Gilchrist. Most league players, let alone test cricketers, spend a fortune on bats and they will go to a shop and pick up dozens of bats until they feel they have the one that suits them perfectly. Gilchrist would just walk through the changing room on his way out to bat and just pick up anyone's bat and go out and smash the ball everywhere. The point is obvious.

    I remember going to a local FT club with a springer. I wasn't doing that well. A guy, who became a good friend of mine, Keith Mepham, who ran a custom air rifle shop, said to me " I can keep tuning this rifle all you want ... but before you decide to keep spending money on it I suggest you let an experienced springer shooter show you what it is capable of in it's current state ". I thought they were harsh words but it was the best advice I ever had re springer shooting.

    I keep asking for someone to do this but I'll probably have to do it myself. Take one of my 77's. Put in basic internals. Shoot groups at a range and maybe do it in a variety of body positions. Then swap the internals for a set of fully tuned ones and, despite the probable smoother cocking/shooting cycle, see what the actual real life difference is on the targets. I've had basic rifles, and certainly basic home 'polished' ones, doing 18mm at 45 yards and an inch at 55 yards rested. How much better than that do you need, especially when trying to shoot standing or kneeling the groups open right up and wind drifts the pellets up to several inches. Always seemed to me that learning technique and wind was far more important than spending money trying to make a 18mm group 16mm at 45 yards.
    Some wisdom here. Better technique beats minor refinement of the tool being used.

    Will an expensive tune make you a better shooter than just shooting 200 rounds a week? For score on targets, not on tin cans at ten yards in your garden.

    Of course, a tune and 200 - or 1000 - serious rounds a week is best of all, but if you had the choice, which would improve your shooting most?

  11. #101
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    Again, valid points noted regarding practice beating flash gear every time! I try to shoot at least a tin a week and am probably doing more than that at present, as I continue to try and improve my springer performance up to a level that I am happy with once again. I will be shooting nearly a full tin this afternoon actually as I further develop the muscles in my right arm!

    It is still nice to have quality gear though chaps. Just makes it more enjoyable. For me anyway!

    Tony, having attended the very first boinger bash and having written it up for a magazine all those years ago, I think it is about time I dropped in again. Do you still hold it near the site of King Richard 3rds unfortunate demise?

    Andy
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amac View Post
    Paul Short has a Facebook page apparently and you will be able to contact him via that. If that fails his contact details can be found on STB (via some research.)
    Paul Short email gamekeeper43@hotmail.com
    My youtube channel and please subscribe if you like itShooting at Dawn
    Facebook group Air Rifles Why not try my Mewe group? https://mewe.com/join/air_rifles

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amac View Post

    Tony, having attended the very first boinger bash and having written it up for a magazine all those years ago, I think it is about time I dropped in again. Do you still hold it near the site of King Richard 3rds unfortunate demise?

    Andy
    It would be fantastic to see you at The Bash again, Andy.

    Yes, Uncle Mick still hosts The Bash at Higham on The Hill, just a field or two away from the original venue. You'll not miss it. The springs still grace the road signs (bloody naughty Boingy fairies!) and there are two further springs on the gateway and a bloody great banner!

    See you soon..


    BOING!
    THE BOINGER BASH AT QUIGLEY HOLLOW. MAKING GREAT MEMORIES SINCE 15th JUNE, 2013.
    NEXT EVENT :- SEPT. 8/9, 2018. BOING!!

  14. #104
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    Love the springs on the road-signs Tony!!

    Having spent a few hours with my 97 and TX yesterday afternoon at the Leigh 54 yard indoor range, I once again left the venue smiling with the performance of both the tuned 97 and the box standard TX. Incidentally, I noticed a box of JSB "Select" pellets in my range bag that I had forgotten about and tried them in the TX, as the 97 doesn't like JSB. I could not believe the accuracy at all ranges. The TX was good with AAF but simply stunning with the Selects. I have also been using seven power Hawke scopes and am very impressed with these as well. Maybe its an age thing again, but I just feel more comfortable with a smaller, more simple scope these days.

    When I think about how much my PCP target rifle and scope cost and compare it to something like a TX or 97 and "basic" scope, I could have bought three full outfits rather than one target rig. Since ditching the PCP I have enjoyed myself so much more when shooting any of my springers. I know we have all heard this before from many shooters, but for me, it really has put one of Tony's "boings" back into my enjoyment of the sport.

    I will be putting the TX to work on a Gauntlet north west HFT course tomorrow. I will probably get destroyed. Do you know what though, I really dont give a toss! Just using the TX will allow me to take on what are tricky shots for spring gun aficionados as Bozzer has pointed out on many occasions. I most definitely will not be shooting with son James though as he is just a pain in the arse!

    Anyway, happy shooting yourselves folks!

    Andy
    Member, the Feinwerkbau Sport appreciation Society (over 50's chapter)
    http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu/ Andy, from the North !

  15. #105
    Herx77 is offline "Instruments of the light"
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    I find quality not quantity is more important when shooting springers,and forcing more pellets down range hoping things might improve. can end in frustration. Possibly sometimes it will improve but better to end on a satisfactory ending( hitting a spacific mark)than lobbing the rifle over the nearest hedge.
    You tend to know when things are going well when your concentration is where the pellet will impact on the target and not how the hold, trigger or grip is working.Get your focus out there and not where you are.
    So much in good springer shooting is automatic and without thinking; do the preparation and the gun will(might) take care of you,you'll certainly know the difference when it all gells together.It just feels good.
    Would be nice to attend one of your functions,might even see some of the 80's crowd and Jon Budd, pity Barry isn't around any more.
    HERX77 .
    Last edited by Herx77; 12-02-2018 at 09:06 PM.
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