Spring gun revival (again.....)

[Amac]

You have made some very valid points chaps!

Gary's comment about him learning with a PCP is probably the norm now, with probably most "serious" shooters who get fully drawn into the sport these days buying an excellent gun such as the AA 400 with which to learn crucial skills such as reading the wind if shooting outside of course.

As I said in the previous post, who am I to recommend what anybody should start shooting with anyway? The main objective should be to get new shooters interested. If they choose to use a PCP then great.

Maybe there are some shooters who just enjoy the amazing accuracy available from even a relatively cheap PCP and are happy to proceed with this approach. I cant help but think that they are missing out on a challenging aspect of our sport though. The problem appears to be that shooting springers is not something that comes as swiftly as the ability to hit the target with a recoil-less gun.

I just hope that shooters new to airgunning at least consider learning to shoot a spring powered gun as they are missing out otherwise in my opinion.The challenge of shooting a springer to a high standard is not something that happens overnight. I just hope that future generations continue to enjoy the challenge of doing so, and that old buggers like me are not the end of the line for future spring gun development.

Andy

[clarky]

You have made some very valid points chaps!

Gary's comment about him learning with a PCP is probably the norm now, with probably most "serious" shooters who get fully drawn into the sport these days buying an excellent gun such as the AA 400 with which to learn crucial skills such as reading the wind if shooting outside of course.

As I said in the previous post, who am I to recommend what anybody should start shooting with anyway? The main objective should be to get new shooters interested. If they choose to use a PCP then great.

Maybe there are some shooters who just enjoy the amazing accuracy available from even a relatively cheap PCP and are happy to proceed with this approach. I cant help but think that they are missing out on a challenging aspect of our sport though. The problem appears to be that shooting springers is not something that comes as swiftly as the ability to hit the target with a recoil-less gun.

I just hope that shooters new to airgunning at least consider learning to shoot a spring powered gun as they are missing out otherwise in my opinion.The challenge of shooting a springer to a high standard is not something that happens overnight. I just hope that future generations continue to enjoy the challenge of doing so, and that old buggers like me are not the end of the line for future spring gun development.

Andy

I must admit at being at complete odds to all these posts regarding the challenges of the springer etc..
Maybe im the odd one out, or it could be that i tune my springers to the machinists level, removing much of the issues associated with the spring mechansim ... also only purchasing the highest quality versions.
However, i regularly outshoot my soon to be sold Regal with both a 34 and Prosport albeit both supertuned to the limits of the art.
Shot to shot consistancy is better, no power curves and no slight errors from feed mags...
Throw in the fact im sick and tired of refilling and bottles ....and im about done.
However, i do no shooting from cushions or supported situations...im purely a rough shooter over a big permission.

[bozzer]

Maybe I'm the odd one out, or it could be that I tune my springers to the machinists level, removing much of the issues associated with the spring mechansim ... also only purchasing the highest quality versions.

As long as there's that big spring in there, to achieve anywhere near the 12fp, then they are still a different world to the PCPs.

I can't really comment on why you can outshoot your Regal with your two springers. Maybe the Regal doesn't have a great barrel or maybe you haven't found the right pellet for it.

If you've shot springers for a while then you maybe already naturally use the right techniques that can be so hard to get people to accept and put into practice.

Sometimes what one person considers as super accurate is not really all that accurate to others. I'd shot springers for years since I was a lad and once I'd acquired a decent 25mm 77k that I'd tuned I thought I couldn't miss. I would practice hitting things about an inch diameter at ranges probably out to 40 yards and I could hit these almost every time from sitting and kneeling positions. So what was the problem? Why all these PCPs with bottles and leaks etc. See ... I've already sneaked in 'almost' everytime there and accepted that that is good enough. It's natural for people to kid themselves with comments like ... I can get 'most' inside an inch at XX range. Check out some of the videos on Youtube where you see people shoot a group of 5 and there is one 'flyer' and they say ... I'm going to ignore that one as it's a flyer ... or I pulled that one. So they then cover the rest with a 5p and say ... Look, I can get all pellets inside a 5p with this springer at this range. No they can't. You can't ignore that flyer.

The big difference is when shooting out of a natural, normal, comfortable position. Many springer shooters have posted to say that they can shoot as accurate as the PCP shooters on the range on a good day. Have a slightly off day and the springer groups open up a little. Move out of the comfort position and the springer groups open up a little. NOTE ... A little. Not by loads. So if your chosen target is a tin can up the back garden, or a rabbit's head in a field at up to 40 yards, then you still probably achieve your goals and consider you are shooting very well. That's where the tight kills on modern tough HFT courses show that your groups have opened up and your scores dipped as a half inch change in POI, or a slightly opened up group, can mean 10 more misses on the scorecard.

[Phil Russell]

I must admit at being at complete odds to all these posts regarding the challenges of the springer etc..
Maybe im the odd one out, or it could be that i tune my springers to the machinists level, removing much of the issues associated with the spring mechansim ... also only purchasing the highest quality versions.
.

I suggest that you may well be the odd one out and you should be proud of yourself that shooting a springer poses no challenge and also that you have the skills necessary to tune a springer to a high level such that the challenge posed by standard out of the box rifles is minimised. OK, I added a few words to your text but I believe they convey the gist of your meaning.
But please do not, for want of better words, 'look down on' those people who do not possess your skills. To the vast majority of springer shooters, mastering the beast is an integral part of the fun and character of the rifle. The pleasure derived from mastering the rifle and seeing your own skill level rise accordingly can be very satisfying. It is, to the majority, a superb way of developing shooting skills.
Cheers, Phil

[clarky]

I suggest that you may well be the odd one out and you should be proud of yourself that shooting a springer poses no challenge and also that you have the skills necessary to tune a springer to a high level such that the challenge posed by standard out of the box rifles is minimised. OK, I added a few words to your text but I believe they convey the gist of your meaning.
But please do not, for want of better words, 'look down on' those people who do not possess your skills. To the vast majority of springer shooters, mastering the beast is an integral part of the fun and character of the rifle. The pleasure derived from mastering the rifle and seeing your own skill level rise accordingly can be very satisfying. It is, to the majority, a superb way of developing shooting skills.
Cheers, Phil

...."please dont look down on people who dont possess my skills"
Well there is no hint in my post that suggests i look down on anyone and the primary reason i provide a service or advice to anyone who needs it, especially if they are a fellow springer shooter....to help them.
Its simply that i do not share the same enthusiasm for seated shooters with gigantic stocked PCP guns and associated parafinalia....because thats not what field shooting is about.
I have simply found that with tuning levels similar to what Tony Hall or Tony Leach can perform, i have rendered the need for the PCP surplus to requirements for me personally ...
This is not to say that the PCP cannot outshoot a springer on paper but the associated hassle to do so just aint worth it to me...
The bottles or pumping, being aware of your pressures and power curves....running out....having to think constantly about air and availability....i just cannot be asked when im grouping into an inch at 45 yards.

[Phil Russell]

Hi Clarky
Thank you for the clarification. You are, however, in a privileged situation in that you are able to modify your rifle and have the inherent ability to shoot it at a high level such that shooting is not as much a challenge as it is to someone with far less experience and shooting a standard production rifle that has had no work done on it. So, maybe I put it rather wrongly in my first post: it may not be a challenge to you but it will be to far less gifted shooters. And I suggest that even with a highly tuned rifle, springer shooting is still a challenge to the majority.
And if people wish to spend cash on their hobby and buy all sorts of equipment to aid their shooting (and I include rifle tunes here) and hopefully improve their performance, why not? I too have seen shooters with very expensive FT PCP rigs who missed a big 25yd kill even after spending ages fiddling with range finding and scope fiddling. But hey ... they were having fun in their chosen sport.
Cheers, Phil

[LESS THAN FORTUITOUS KENNETH]

I too have seen shooters with very expensive FT PCP rigs who missed a big 25yd kill even after spending ages fiddling with range finding and scope fiddling. But hey ... they were having fun in their chosen sport.
Cheers, Phil

Didn't know you'd ever seen me shoot Phil?

[Phil Russell]

Didn't know you'd ever seen me shoot Phil?

If I had known it was you I would have said 'hello'.
Seriously though, all shooting is a challenge and it is more of a challenge to some than others. I have no doubt that PCPs are more forgiving of positional changes than springers but I still love shooting a springer despite the yoga positions I am forced into at an HFT shoot resulting in a less than perfect hold. Yes, there are times when I wish I did not have to do it; when the back creaks, the bones groan and it takes me longer to get up after the shot. But in a way it is enjoyable and seeing others in the same predicament somehow eases the pains (!!).
It is also enjoyable watching a true master of the craft knocking targets down in bad conditions.
Cheers, Phil