Spring gun revival (again.....)

[robs5230]

We can actually give a perfect example of what Bozzer is talking about there.

How many have heard of Vermin Hunters TV?....long distance springer hunting shots?

Now have a look at the scores that Si Pittaway and Davy Thomas get at HFT comps. nuff said.

Don't get me wrong, one of the best 'natural' shooters i know is an out and out Hunter.

Maybe we should challenge clarky to prove his shooting skills?

There's a big difference between target shooting and hunting. All my shots when hunting are pretty much instinctive. I may take 6 shots in a 2 or 3 hour session.
Not sure how I'd fare taking 40 shots over an hour at knockdown targets I'm not familiar with.
I'm familiar with shape and size of my quarry but an unknown size of steel plate with an unknown size of kill area at a guestimated range would certainly make it hard for me to judge distance and place a shot accurately.
I'm aware shooters do get familiar with courses so get to know the target size and distance.
Last I heard, digital rangefinders weren't allowed in competetive shooting but are invaluable when hunting

[ChrisC]

There's a big difference between target shooting and hunting. All my shots when hunting are pretty much instinctive. I may take 6 shots in a 2 or 3 hour session.
Not sure how I'd fare taking 40 shots over an hour at knockdown targets I'm not familiar with.
I'm familiar with shape and size of my quarry but an unknown size of steel plate with an unknown size of kill area at a guestimated range would certainly make it hard for me to judge distance and place a shot accurately.
I'm aware shooters do get familiar with courses so get to know the target size and distance.
Last I heard, digital rangefinders weren't allowed in competetive shooting but are invaluable when hunting

i've done a lot of hunting in the past but it's slowed down a bit now i'm not on the farm. I agree that quite a few shots are 'instinct' as you'll be lucky to get your crosshairs onto a squirrel for more than a couple of seconds so 'pre-shot' mental calculations (wind/range/cover) have to be done whilst making sure the bugger doesn't do the inevitable vanishing trick. I've found that HFT shooting has honed my 'mk1 eyeball' rangefinding a treat and because of the need for super accuracy, made me keep my hunting kit as accurate as my comp kit. Personally, i started with shotties at 8 and went onto HMR and rimmie before joining the Navy and being in the stations 25m prone team. Came out and had a decade out of shooting before getting bitten by the air rifle bug but have kept my hand in with Shotties and .223/.270. The vast majority of my shooting has beeen FT and HFT but i still have a dabble with other bits n bobs. I've owned loads of boingers over the years but admit that i can't shoot them for toffee.....well that's not strictly true.....i just didn't devote enough time to learn each rifle, got frustrated and went back to the PCP. I suppose it's because i was shooting so many comps that i thought i should be shooting a comp rig as much as possible.

IIRC the maddest thing i bought was a Longbow venom but still couldn't master springers...even with a 1k boinger.

[robs5230]

i've done a lot of hunting in the past but it's slowed down a bit now i'm not on the farm. I agree that quite a few shots are 'instinct' as you'll be lucky to get your crosshairs onto a squirrel for more than a couple of seconds so 'pre-shot' mental calculations (wind/range/cover) have to be done whilst making sure the bugger doesn't do the inevitable vanishing trick. I've found that HFT shooting has honed my 'mk1 eyeball' rangefinding a treat and because of the need for super accuracy, made me keep my hunting kit as accurate as my comp kit. Personally, i started with shotties at 8 and went onto HMR and rimmie before joining the Navy and being in the stations 25m prone team. Came out and had a decade out of shooting before getting bitten by the air rifle bug but have kept my hand in with Shotties and .223/.270. The vast majority of my shooting has beeen FT and HFT but i still have a dabble with other bits n bobs. I've owned loads of boingers over the years but admit that i can't shoot them for toffee.....well that's not strictly true.....i just didn't devote enough time to learn each rifle, got frustrated and went back to the PCP. I suppose it's because i was shooting so many comps that i thought i should be shooting a comp rig as much as possible.

IIRC the maddest thing i bought was a Longbow venom but still couldn't master springers...even with a 1k boinger.

I think part of it (and a big part at that) is knowing your kit inside out (learning the rifle as you say). I rarely if ever have more than one hunting springer. All my rifles, pcp and springer have the same scope so I'm familiar with bracketing my quarry. I also tune my springers to my liking. I

[bighit]

There's a big difference between target shooting and hunting. All my shots when hunting are pretty much instinctive. I may take 6 shots in a 2 or 3 hour session.
Not sure how I'd fare taking 40 shots over an hour at knockdown targets I'm not familiar with.
I'm familiar with shape and size of my quarry but an unknown size of steel plate with an unknown size of kill area at a guestimated range would certainly make it hard for me to judge distance and place a shot accurately.
I'm aware shooters do get familiar with courses so get to know the target size and distance.
Last I heard, digital rangefinders weren't allowed in competitive shooting but are invaluable when hunting

laser range finders mostly have a +/- 1 metre accuracy so it would not be to their advantage any way

LEICA GEOVID "EDITION 2017" (8 x 42 HD-B EDITION 2200)

and costs http://www.swillingtonshootingsuppli...-Edition-2017/

was £2550 now £1825 . so even the expensive ones are not totally accurate

Measuring accuracy ± 1 yd / m to 547 yds / 500 m
± 2 yds / m to 1,094 yds / 1,000 m
± 0,5 % beyond 1,094 yds / 1,000 m

[cooper_dan]

Bozzer,

Points well made. I think my problem is I have trouble putting myself in other people's shoes.
I have a friend who started HFT the same time as me. He started with a PCP and over about 4 months he upgraded two more times. Final gun was a very expensive Daystate. That didn't last long though. He'd bought the best kit but didn't practice range finding or technique so didn't get amazing scores and got bored very quickly. Doesn't shoot anymore.

I've been of the opinion that starting with a springer is a good idea because it exaggerates poor technique so you can learn from it. Then upgrade to a PCP when you want to start upping your scores. But I can definitely see why people would want to go straight to PCP

[robs5230]

laser range finders mostly have a +/- 1 metre accuracy so it would not be to their advantage any way

LEICA GEOVID "EDITION 2017" (8 x 42 HD-B EDITION 2200)

and costs http://www.swillingtonshootingsuppli...-Edition-2017/

was £2550 now £1825 . so even the expensive ones are not totally accurate

Measuring accuracy ± 1 yd / m to 547 yds / 500 m
± 2 yds / m to 1,094 yds / 1,000 m
± 0,5 % beyond 1,094 yds / 1,000 m

I know.
What I was getting at was I'd have no chance really on an FT course as I have no idea of the plate sizes. However I do know what a rabbit looks like. And I have the ability to range find If i need in the field.
Regular FT shooters will have a big advantage over me in the FT course and I reckon some FT shooters may likewise struggle in the field. I took a mate out recently who's just got into ft and bought himself a r10mk2. He's very good considering he's not been shooting long.
He took a shot at a rabbit at 20 yards when out with me and had a clean miss. He's not asked to go since.

[Murphy]

He took a shot at a rabbit at 20 yards when out with me and had a clean miss. He's not asked to go since.

Thats called Buck fever.

[robs5230]

Thats called Buck fever.

I get the same shooting at inanimate steel plates and paper

[harvey_s]

I used to use a spring rifle when I was younger - but that's because mass-produced PCP's were in their infancy.
Later as my interests progressed to loose women and fast motorcycles any further interest took a back seat.
After that came the demands of a young family and my interests were confined to air pistols for many years.
As the family grew up, free time became available and my interest in rifles bubbled to the surface again.
I couldn't be arsed to kit myself out with all the divers kit for a PCP - so I purchased a PH Striker which ultimately disappointed with it's harsh nature and my mediocre performance .
After a while my interest in this gun was starting to wane when I was asked to dispose of some guns from an estate of which the last rifle to sell was a PCP & hand pump - namely an A-A S200 with FX 3 stage pump .
I decided to try it out before I sold it and what a revelation!... Smooth and almost effortlessly super accurate out to 50 yards and with no divers bottle malarkey.
The PH got sold and the A-A joined the household, much later followed by a Crosman 2250XL (superlight and very handy out to 25 yds) which I like and shoot a lot.
Just recently my eye was drawn by another Crosman - an MTR77 which had the dual selling point of looking exactly like a certain black rifle and having a gas ram (so no fannying about spring tuning, top hattery or Colonel Saunders special formula grease nonsense).
However, it has required a fairly steep learning curve to get it to group and even now its a demanding mistress and to become similarly proficienct to a PCP would require (a lot of) continued practice to keep the skill sharp I feel.

And that's the PCP's winning feature I think...it's very easy to live with despite the extra complexity of charging apparatus and nowhere near as demanding as the true springer which probably requires tuning from the off to optimise it and continual checking and maintenance to keep that consistency plus regular practice or competition.

However, to those bored by the clinical precision of PCP's and an interest in tinkering I see the attraction.

But these things tend to cyclical and in a few years the novelty will wear off for some and PCP's will become the next big thing (again)

[flyingfish]

Several years ago I had a rat problem at work (bear with me) I bought a Brum Xocet. Found I could hit a few things with it. Joined Broomhills and met PCPS. Suddenly I could hit anything. Moved on to powder burning.
Years passed and I came back to airguns through PCPs. Wasn't till I got back to a springer that I REALLY felt I was enjoying shooting again. It's got to be fun whatever you're shooting