Spring gun revival (again.....)

[scutter]

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest and there has been many great points, I shall ignore the comments from the old codger (ChrisC) as in his advancing years he gets a bit confused now and then (No spring chicken) :-)

What Bozzer says is correct, on a level ground, my TX200hc will shoot 10 pellets as well as my Steyr could, I can often shoot a 10 shot group of about 8mm at 45 yards and my Steyr could only ever beat this by a fraction. At 30 yards and under, there is no difference and in wind (Measured with an anomomiter) the Tx is better then the Steyr.

On a basic club course, i would expect to be a few points infront or a few points behind my mate Alex Larkin, me an Alex have always been at the same level and this hs not changed sinced I moved to a springer. However, when it comes to National UKAHFT spec courses where the 25mm are at 40 yards and the kneelers and standers are at maximum, then the gap between me and Alex widens. Also, there seems to be a growing trend to force people up the pegs and also the wrong side of the peg and for a PCP, this is not an issue, but for a boinger, this is almost an impossible shot.

There is no doubt that on a basic course the springers can compete, but when the course are tough and long, then it's much harder.

That being said, I never managed to clear a course until I started to shoot spring, so, what does this tell me? When I shot PCP, i got lazy, I would go to a target and expect to kill it and when I did not treat the target with respect, I often missed. With a boinger, you have to think about every shot, so, for me, shooting a spring is the best thing.

Hope this helps.

Gary

[Barryg]

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest and there has been many great points, I shall ignore the comments from the old codger (ChrisC) as in his advancing years he gets a bit confused now and then (No spring chicken) :-)

What Bozzer says is correct, on a level ground, my TX200hc will shoot 10 pellets as well as my Steyr could, I can often shoot a 10 shot group of about 8mm at 45 yards and my Steyr could only ever beat this by a fraction. At 30 yards and under, there is no difference and in wind (Measured with an anomomiter) the Tx is better then the Steyr.

On a basic club course, i would expect to be a few points infront or a few points behind my mate Alex Larkin, me an Alex have always been at the same level and this hs not changed sinced I moved to a springer. However, when it comes to National UKAHFT spec courses where the 25mm are at 40 yards and the kneelers and standers are at maximum, then the gap between me and Alex widens. Also, there seems to be a growing trend to force people up the pegs and also the wrong side of the peg and for a PCP, this is not an issue, but for a boinger, this is almost an impossible shot.

There is no doubt that on a basic course the springers can compete, but when the course are tough and long, then it's much harder.

That being said, I never managed to clear a course until I started to shoot spring, so, what does this tell me? When I shot PCP, i got lazy, I would go to a target and expect to kill it and when I did not treat the target with respect, I often missed. With a boinger, you have to think about every shot, so, for me, shooting a spring is the best thing.

Hope this helps.

Gary

Your post is music to a springer shooter's ears

[Amac]

I am glad that this thread has developed into a discussion regarding the difficulties of springer shooting at today's difficult course layouts. I suppose the bottom line is that organisers have allowed for the provision of a springer category and that of course all using a boinger are in the same boat.
The problem is that the boat has developed a few leaks. Course setters do a great job of fooling the unwary into a bad shot, even when using a "dead" gun. I would like to see some of the top shoots using boingers for a year and to then see if the rules changed!
Anyway, got to go and zero the new 97!
Bye for now folks,
Andy

[Herx77]

Just a thought, "to play devils advocate" regarding kill (target) sizes; and in the past targets being bigger that entailed better scores. EG, the shooting ability was inferier to todays shooters. Using Springers.
I would propose that the skill level was as good as (and in my experience with shooters through the 80's and 90's) overall better.
Sizes... How do you shoot to achieve a range card?or what are your expectations!
Do you set out to form a group of 1inch,2inch or more finding the centre of the group to make it the reference at that paticular distance!
At Markyate in the 80's( I know going back like a Tardis) and what I do today with springers and pcp's, is pick out a pellet mark and shoot to hit or clover leaf it from marks 8 to 55 yds. We did that as did D. Welham and T. Doe etc.
Clover leafing at 50/55yds was common and fun.
NOW if you can shoot pellet marks during range carding why would it be difficult hitting larger targets .After all a 15mm or 35mm kill is a lot bigger than a pellet splash.(Not much changes)
So why the difficulty and frightening aspec of a set course? you just proved you can shoot smaller items. Is it a skill thing?
One gun is easier to shoot and be comfortable with it,and another needs constant adjustments but is accurate but needs more applied skill.
That is shooting a 'live' springer.
HERX77 .

[22pelletpete]

Just a thought, "to play devils advocate" regarding kill (target) sizes; and in the past targets being bigger that entailed better scores. EG, the shooting ability was inferier to todays shooters. Using Springers.
I would propose that the skill level was as good as (and in my experience with shooters through the 80's and 90's) overall better.
Sizes... How do you shoot to achieve a range card?or what are your expectations!
Do you set out to form a group of 1inch,2inch or more finding the centre of the group to make it the reference at that paticular distance!
At Markyate in the 80's( I know going back like a Tardis) and what I do today with springers and pcp's, is pick out a pellet mark and shoot to hit or clover leaf it from marks 8 to 55 yds. We did that as did D. Welham and T. Doe etc.
Clover leafing at 50/55yds was common and fun.
NOW if you can shoot pellet marks during range carding why would it be difficult hitting smmaller targets .After all a 15mm or 35mm kill is a lot bigger than a pellet splash.(Not much changes)
So why the difficulty and frightening of a set course? you just proved you can shoot smaller items. Is it a skill thing?
One is easier to shoot and be comfortable with it,and another needs constant adjustments but is accurate but needs more applied skill.
That is shooting a 'live' springer.
HERX77 .

Yes that is understandable herx77 my feelings too.IMHO its all about acheiving your personal best with the equipment you have. dont expect pcp scores or be disheartened when springing,the pleasure is improving by honing your skills

[Wheelieneilie]

Yes that is understandable herx77 my feelings too.IMHO its all about acheiving your personal best with the equipment you have. dont expect pcp scores or be disheartened when springing,the pleasure is improving by honing your skills

Wahoo! I shot with Herx77 and Melanie last weekend at Lea Valley and finally pushed my Lea Valley PB with a PCP up to my Lea Valley recoiling PB!!!!!!
All the best,
Neil Wakelin

[Amac]

Well done Neil. Problem now is that you will need to dump the new Steyr until you further increase your recoiling score!

I haven't shot a PCP in months now and haven't missed them at all. It was interesting to talk to some novice PCP shots at a recent zeroing session at a local indoor bench rested range.
A couple of shooters had never shot a springer and literally jumped themselves following shot release. They commented that they would rather just use their dead guns to monotone effect and were happy to continue doing that all day. The main thing is I suppose that they were shooting, but learning they were not.

Maybe I expect too much of new shooters who can just pick up a PCP and imagine themselves as champion shots in no time at all? If they are happy to do that and remain shooters why the hell not. I think that I am actually harking back to a time when we all had to possess some actual shooting skills in order to improve. That does not mean we have to subject youngsters and newcomers to learning how to shoot a proper recoiling gun. Yes they would be better shooters if they did learn the skills, but why should and why would they?

The bottom line is that I am now an old dodderer who thinks that everything should be done the way it was when I was young myself. It is a shame that many youngsters will not have the opportunity to wander down on the local beach armed with an air rifle just shooting at cans and washed up rubbish like we did.

Times have changed, maybe I should just come to terms with this and just let the younger shooters do things their own way and shoot guns that dont respond to how they are shot.

Andy

[Herx77]

Christmas dinner done and onto the second glass of Glen Morangie, the warmth spreads through you and a posting seems to be the right think to do.....Topping up and ready to go.
Happy christmas to shooters of the 80's ( a strange band in a strange land) but creating a firm evironment which we enjoy today. Considering either "Dark side" ( nasty pcp's ), or instruments of the light "springers", both give a certain satisfaction but for some reason springers give more.
Considering why, and a third (glass or fourth), it may be that if you shoot pcp's for a time you seem to reach a plateau, and some go beyond it and become something special, high consistant scores, and an understanding of wind that indicates a selling of ones soul...almost.Others don't and never go beyond that level.
However shooting a springer,"it being a hard taskmaster", skills, if you can stay the course,will become ingrained slower than a pcp but stay longer and a better sense of achievement to break through the plateau and beyond, which is almost unnoticeable.
Certainly a strong sense of determination seems to go hand in hand with those who spread the word of the spring.
Skills gained with springers translate into pcp shooting but rarely the other way;mistakes in hold etc you can get away with pcp's but springers have to be nearly perfect each time. The margin for error is very small,........all those that affect a pcp, and then throw recoil and hold into the equation. Wonderfall things springers and their shooters.
HERX77 .