How much would you pay for a top end off the shelf springer?

[fieldandtarget]

With the healthy interest in springers Do you think there is a market for high end custom springers/self contained off the shelf rifles and what would you be prepared to pay for one new these days if they were available?

I"m thinking along the lines of desirable rifles such as tx200 sr, venom hornet,park rifles,fenman profile,whiscombe etc type rifles.

Would be interesting what gun shop owners thoughts were.Whether expensive springers would just sit on the shelf for a year or they could shift them as fast as they get them in.

[JerryD]

.....given that top end PCPs go for >£2k and the amount that gets spent on tuning improvements then I don't think it's unrealistic for a top end springer to be around £1k. By the time a tune and stock are added, most top end boingers must be pushing that anyway.

If JW were to start up again tomorrow with a price tag £1750 - £2000 I'd be one of the first in probably a very long queue.....







.

[para]

There is a desire for high end rifles but in terms of commercial success it is quite a difficult market, look at impact airguns they tried but unfortunately it wasn't to be.
Off the shelf I think are/were fairly priced depending on where you buy from and £600 is what id be prepared to pay for a top end standard gun, If your talking venom type standard off the shelf i.e. nice stock/finish high spec tuning etc.. then £600-900 because as we know high end rifles from the likes of Venom, airmasters maintain and often gain in value so your not going to loose out of pocket and built to last.
The more desirable collectables I.e TX200SR, ProTarget and Theobens only attract higher prices now because they are no longer produced and bearing in mind getting parts etc is getting more difficult. I personally would only pay up to £350 now for a theoben because of maintaining and servicing issues. What I would say is that for Airarms not to continue making the SR, Pro Target etc if they were so popular doesn't make good business sense.

[les allam]

There will be a few people who are willing and able to spend a fair chunk of money on some thing special .
I have spent a few bob on some of my guns in resent years(after putting family first ,mortgage ect)and have what I consider my dream air rifles.
If a Venom Cobra came about at the right price and I had the money spare I would go for it.
Les..

[Mole trapper]

I would pay a grand, grand and a half,ish I suppose. It would only be used once a year probably to fire a few shots, fondle it a couple of times a year too.
But essentially it would be eye candy that was also hopefully an investment.

[lensman57]

With the healthy interest in springers Do you think there is a market for high end custom springers/self contained off the shelf rifles and what would you be prepared to pay for one new these days if they were available?

I"m thinking along the lines of desirable rifles such as tx200 sr, venom hornet,park rifles,fenman profile,whiscombe etc type rifles.

Would be interesting what gun shop owners thoughts were.Whether expensive springers would just sit on the shelf for a year or they could shift them as fast as they get them in.

The market for these sort of things is very small. That is why those guys you mentioned are no longer in the business. The over enthusiasm of a few fans for high end eye candy should not be mistaken with the realities of the present over flooded and highly competitive market. I know of atleast two RFDs in my area who would not even stock £1000+ pcps for the lack of sales and the customer has to place an order and a hefty deposit first.
I guess you could always buy a basic TX or Prosport and set about adding bling and tunning parts to it.

A.G

[para]

The younger shooters coming into the sport I think if faced with a shiny pcp which they know shoot well straight from the box or a springer at the same price which as we all know require more practice will probably take the pcp. For us who remember our younger days of the springer when pcps were in very early stages of development we have more nostalgic memories of Shooting and like to relive those days. I'd imagine lots of younger shooters have never heard of Venom, Theoben etc and only experience of spring guns are the lower end budget type springers.
Unfortunately for spring fans Competition shooting is now dominated by the pcp. That being said there are still very good high end springers being made and we still have talented tuners and stock makers out there so all is not lost.

[robs5230]

There is a desire for high end rifles but in terms of commercial success it is quite a difficult market, look at impact airguns they tried but unfortunately it wasn't to be.
Off the shelf I think are/were fairly priced depending on where you buy from and £600 is what id be prepared to pay for a top end standard gun, If your talking venom type standard off the shelf i.e. nice stock/finish high spec tuning etc.. then £600-900 because as we know high end rifles from the likes of Venom, airmasters maintain and often gain in value so your not going to loose out of pocket and built to last.
The more desirable collectables I.e TX200SR, ProTarget and Theobens only attract higher prices now because they are no longer produced and bearing in mind getting parts etc is getting more difficult. I personally would only pay up to £350 now for a theoben because of maintaining and servicing issues. What I would say is that for Airarms not to continue making the SR, Pro Target etc if they were so popular doesn't make good business sense.

I'd certainly pay the current price for an rm100 if it was produced as a springer. I think impact would sell them. Shame they stopped production before exploring this. They have basically everything there to make an outstanding break barrel or even an underlever with the RM200.
The only reason I haven't bought the rm100 before now is the unreliability of the gas ram internals.

[Jesim1]

The market for these sort of things is very small. That is why those guys you mentioned are no longer in the business. The over enthusiasm of a few fans for high end eye candy should not be mistaken with the realities of the present over flooded and highly competitive market. I know of atleast two RFDs in my area who would not even stock £1000+ pcps for the lack of sales and the customer has to place an order and a hefty deposit first.
I guess you could always buy a basic TX or Prosport and set about adding bling and tunning parts to it.

A.G

I've got to agree - everyone wants a Ferrari - but who actually buys one, even if you have the money?

James

[Vernal]

The market for these sort of things is very small. That is why those guys you mentioned are no longer in the business. The over enthusiasm of a few fans for high end eye candy should not be mistaken with the realities of the present over flooded and highly competitive market. I know of at least two RFDs in my area who would not even stock £1000+ pcps for the lack of sales and the customer has to place an order and a hefty deposit first.

A.G

I think this is about right. I suppose my V-glided Customstocked Steve Pope triggered HW97 must be pushing £8 -£9 hundred (daren't add it up, I suffer from a weak heart) and my Nick G'd Warren Edwards' LGU must be heading the same way. But I am not at all sure I would have splashed out the whole lot in one go for a new super model off the shelf. Half the fun of springers is in developing them to suit your own tastes, and to know that you have tried some of the best tuners in the field. I'm not sure a manufacturers take would have the same thrill factor

[Mach 1.5]

Venom did the Mach 1 and Mach 2. JW did his wonderful guns back in the day and they sold. My Mach 1 cost me £1500 in 1990 so how much would that be in today standards!. People will pay for quality...shotguns, Watches, Cars etc. Yes it's expensive, can I afford it? If so, treat yourself...Mach 1.5

[Geezer]

Venom did the Mach 1 and Mach 2. JW did his wonderful guns back in the day and they sold. My Mach 1 cost me £1500 in 1990 so how much would that be in today standards!. People will pay for quality...shotguns, Watches, Cars etc. Yes it's expensive, can I afford it? If so, threat yourself...Mach 1.5

About £3200, using the Bank of England inflation calculator.

Which doesn't reflect the above-inflation increases in the costs of fine Turkish walnut in the last 25 years.

So I'd say a new 2017 Mach-1 equivalent would be north of four grand.

Which does, I suggest, induce a degree of reality to this thread.

The nearest comparator I can think of are the ISP Spartans. What do they go for? Two and a half thousand and upwards? How much were Whiscombes when JW stopped making them?

My only hope for a new upmarket springer, as I posted a while ago on a similar thread, lies in the combination of lower-cost traditional gun making and finishing skills in Turkey. A Turkish equivalent of Venom ought to be able to turn out something very special for around a thousand pounds.

[fieldandtarget]

Interesting replies.
I know the likes of a new venom or whiscombe type rifle would be for the few due to the price they would most likely be (2k+?) but for me i would've thought there would be a market in the same price bracket as a lot of PCP"s around £600-£900 ish something like the tx200sr or opposing piston type rifles for example?

Shooters spend way more than this with aftermarket stocks/engineering work and from what I can gather the businesses doing them seem to be busy,with a waiting list,so there must be demand for quality springers.


Atb

[Geezer]

The TX (introduced 1991) and the Umarex LGV/LGU (5 years old design?) both try to mass manufacture a close-tolerance, well designed springer that works better out of the box than the competition.

That must be the way forward for quality springers, albeit that (apart from my Turkish suggestion above) things like deep lovely bluing on production guns (think of Webleys pre-2005) and really fine walnut stocks are now too expensive for anything other than specials put together either by enthusiasts in sheds (who don't charge themselves for their time) or someone who has a day job but knocks up some customs on the weekend as a profit-making glorified hobby - until he gets bored or life gets in the way.

Not quite what this thread is about, but I am convinced that a factory in China with good CNC machinery and high QC standards could turn out a really high-performing springer that would retail at £250. It might not have the nicest external metal or wood finish, but it would shoot with the best of them. Problem for us is, it would be a 20+ ft-lbs beast aimed to sell big in the US.

[Amac]

I think that if a grand plus springer were to go on sale from the likes of Air Arms it would sell. Lets face it, the standard of guns they put out for a lot less than that sell very well, and I am sure that should a "deluxe" custom tuned springer became available they would have plenty of takers, a gun much like the special that was auctioned off for charity by them a few years ago. I understand the economy of scale, but using their current product line and spending a bit more on a full blown custom stock and some upgraded internals would not involve re-tooling and much additional expense.

Andy