Honing the action

[darren m]

when honing the internal action of a springer , what tool do you guys use

don't have a lathe , so is there something else that can make life easier..

its been a while , but I remember using wet n dry and yard brush handle -- is that still the only option ??

thanks

[Hsing-ee]

In terms of putting some scratches on the cylinder wall to hold lube? Don't bother, its a myth. Dri-slide or use some kind of moly paste on the cylinder wall, burnish it, then use a tiny smear of moly grease on the outer lip of the piston seal.

In terms of correcting a out-of-true cylinder? Leave it to a professional engineering shop, DIY is not going to help.

[darren m]

I just meant to polish it smooth , or is that no a good idea

Thanks

[Hsing-ee]

I just meant to polish it smooth , or is that no a good idea

Thanks

It should be pretty smooth already. What rifle are you working on? Old school would be to degrease it thoroughly with methylated spirit, then polish with Solvol Autosol until you get bored, then clean with more meths. A broom-handle with a slot cut in the end and some cotton rag wrapped around it will do the trick. Use an old cotton T-shirt that has been washed many many times. The main thing is to remove any bits of old washer, burned oil and grease and make the cylinder nice and clean, a mirror finish is a waste of effort. Make sure the transfer port is clean and clear, and make sure that it is open fully at both ends with no obstruction, you can do this by pushing the back end (not the sharp tip) of the appropriately sized drill bit through it. The edges of the cocking slot need smoothing off as sometimes they can nick the edge of the piston seal and cause small leaks.

Have a look at the old-school tuning guide ...

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....ing-Gun-Tuning

Honing is the use of abrasive stones to remove metal and is a scarey process which can end up with an out-of-true cylinder unless you really know what you are doing.

[hmangphilly]

Which part of which rifle chum?

As our friend above says if it's the compression tube , proceed with caution .

There are ways to improve a bad or mediocre one , but it's not really a diy job and easy to go backwards .
Proper honing is a skilled and precision operation .

If it's the inside of a scruffy action on something with a separate comp tube ( tx , 97 etc ) you 'll probably be alright cracking on with your broom handle and wet and dry method to get rid of sharp edges and wot not .


ha ha , he types faster than me ......

[robs5230]

As said above. No need to polish. If you go to a highly polished state you will remove the ability of the cylinder to retain any lube.
Just a thorough clean and deburr needed
If the cylinder is out of round, get it done professionally

[max headroom]

when i was alive at metzeler i got hold of a load of flap wheels. they said were worn out. they were for the job they bought them for. deburring certain dies. they weren't worn out for smaller ones. our old tool buyer was a tool.

[darren m]

Thank you guys -- some sound advice , going to be doing an HW80 , I think I will stick to the of school method as per above ..

its one used before , my train of thought was smoother the better but I see your point regarding grease retaining.... makes sense ..

is there Any real point in polishing the piston to a high sheen ???

[robs5230]

Thank you guys -- some sound advice , going to be doing an HW80 , I think I will stick to the of school method as per above ..

its one used before , my train of thought was smoother the better but I see your point regarding grease retaining.... makes sense ..

is there Any real point in polishing the piston to a high sheen ???

The only real area of the 80 piston that should make any kind of contact is the very rear or the piston. A light polish and some lube burnished in will suffice (I just use emery) . Again a mirror finish not needed.
I'll be tackling an 80 myself in the next fortnight or so

[TonyL]

Very similar to the above, personally.

However, unless there is any obvious scoring to the piston, I just usually polish with Autosol. Maybe a mirror finish is not required, but I normally do. It just kinda looks "right" to me, and with the cylinder not highly polished there's plenty of lube retention there. I then normally burnish some dry moly powder into the piston tail. A tiny, almost indiscernable smear of moly grease / paste around the edge of the seal, but a healthy amount around the rear inch of the piston. Then, with the piston pushed forward and before replacing the spring, I smear some more moly grease around the inside of the cylinder at the back of the piston.

[dayglowfroggy]

OK well I will buck the trend.
I fitted the broom handle to my drill and polished the inside of my 80 compression tube for about two hours using 1200 wet and dry also put the piston in the drill and got it mirror looking.
I did a few other things short stroke, tbt and smaller diameter spring but it shoots really nice now I like to think my polish helped.

[hmangphilly]

I'm a bit puzzled by this ' lube retention ' theory.

It suggests , not to 'polish ' certain surfaces so that tiny groove are still present which will retain a lubricant ......sounds fair....and the lube sits in the trough of the groove.

My trouble with this is that the 2 moving surfaces will only contact each other on the peaks of these grooves so how does the thick ( usually) lube get to the contacting surfaces and do its work .

Further more , any lube that is sitting in tiny troughs in the comp tube ahead of the piston will surely be dieselled off in pretty short order .


as i say ......puzzled

sure i know this method works on pistons in engines , but different things going on in there .

as for what we call 'polishing ' ......well have a look at your super shiny piston under some decent magnification . It's not as smooth as you might think


Tin hat placed firmly on my head .

[dayglowfroggy]

As I said I used 1200 at and dry it looked very polished but I am sure it wasn't really.

I think my polishing might have made the inside of the tube slightly more true but I have no proof at the end of the day all my polishing gave me more confidence in my home tune.

I don't mess about with leather piston seals but I am sure they recommend different treatment to the cylinder for them.

[robs5230]

I'm a bit puzzled by this ' lube retention ' theory.

It suggests , not to 'polish ' certain surfaces so that tiny groove are still present which will retain a lubricant ......sounds fair....and the lube sits in the trough of the groove.

My trouble with this is that the 2 moving surfaces will only contact each other on the peaks of these grooves so how does the thick ( usually) lube get to the contacting surfaces and do its work .

Further more , any lube that is sitting in tiny troughs in the comp tube ahead of the piston will surely be dieselled off in pretty short order .


as i say ......puzzled

sure i know this method works on pistons in engines , but different things going on in there .

as for what we call 'polishing ' ......well have a look at your super shiny piston under some decent magnification . It's not as smooth as you might think


Tin hat placed firmly on my head .

I personally don't polish any other than contact areas.
I think there needs to be some lube retention to a point. A HW piston seal which is very smooth and soft comparitively running down a mirror finish cylinder will drag.
I don't over lube my rifles. There'll be enough lube in the microscopic grooves to be effective.
When stripping and cleaning my rifles, a good clean of the cylinder will remove lube , even if there looks to be little if any present.
If I do size a seal, I wipe lube on and wipe it off. Any lube wiped on a piston seal and left will migrate forward of the seal at some point as will excess lube from a spring. I further try to prevent any unwanted lube getting into the cylinder by using a piston sleeve.
No dieselling at all in my springers

[bighit]

I'm a bit puzzled by this ' lube retention ' theory.

It suggests , not to 'polish ' certain surfaces so that tiny groove are still present which will retain a lubricant ......sounds fair....and the lube sits in the trough of the groove.

My trouble with this is that the 2 moving surfaces will only contact each other on the peaks of these grooves so how does the thick ( usually) lube get to the contacting surfaces and do its work .

Further more , any lube that is sitting in tiny troughs in the comp tube ahead of the piston will surely be dieselled off in pretty short order .


as i say ......puzzled

sure i know this method works on pistons in engines , but different things going on in there .

as for what we call 'polishing ' ......well have a look at your super shiny piston under some decent magnification . It's not as smooth as you might think


Tin hat placed firmly on my head .

When i worked with diesel compressors for offshore the had air starter motors and we overhauled them every 6 months .they had phenolic resin type vanes in them and we used a hone clean the " bores" and i was from an engine recon background and i honed the "bore" like a engine bore ( cross hatching ) and i was told it was not needed to be crosshatched just honed so there was no rust or bad scores .it looked nice as a crosshatched bore though


we used a de-gazling brush on engines bores that were in spec or rebored to the next piston size and honed the bores.

it very easy to get the bore spot on left to right as you look into the bore but also easy to get it slack front to back and vice versa

i used to use one of these for engine bores


https://bentonmachineandautoparts.we...447420.jpg?537
we called it the nodding donkey