Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 27

Thread: bullet casting.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    grantham
    Posts
    1,392

    bullet casting.

    I usually use old wheel weights to cast my 303/308 44 and 45 bullets but iv found a bag of linotype at the back of my garage and have a pile of pure lead piping.
    What percentage linotype to lead would be a good starting point for a 245 grn .429 cal bullet to use in a Marlin 1864. ?? I tried 50/50 but found them very brittle
    and although they cast ok i only made a few and only shot 5 which weren't accurate. I only use 5.5 grns of GM3 powder so not hot loaded by any means. Was
    thinking of starting at 10 per cent and scratch testing in comparison to shop bought. Whats your thoughts.?? Tim

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ashington, Northumberland
    Posts
    715

    casting

    pistol bullets - 10%,
    rifle bullets - 20-25%,

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    grantham
    Posts
    1,392
    Ta. Will start at 20. Can always add more.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    3,509
    Not knowing the tin content of any smelted lead was always a problem so Started of with a small amount of tin and worked it up until I got the results I wanted.

    It was hit and miss and time consuming so I started doing a drop test.

    I put a bullet of known hardness at the bottom of a tube and dropped a weight on it and then measured it with a micrometer. When I was casting I would do a few and do a drop test on a couple and did this until I had a similar hardness to the one I was using as the example.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Warminster, Wilts
    Posts
    632
    Tim56

    Think you will have to do as suggested - bit of suck it and see.

    Does not take much Linotype to change the hardness so 10-20% would. Be a good starting point.

    If you do a dig on the web you will find quite a lot of information. One thing to be aware of is some alloys change hardness over time (which can range from days to months) so testing a cast bullet might not indicate what it will be when you get round to using it.

    Think you will find your old wheel weights had some arsenic in them which means you can heat treat bullets after casting should you so wish (caveat: from memory !)

    Brgds Terry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    3,509
    Quote Originally Posted by thibben View Post
    Tim56

    Think you will have to do as suggested - bit of suck it and see.

    Does not take much Linotype to change the hardness so 10-20% would. Be a good starting point.

    If you do a dig on the web you will find quite a lot of information. One thing to be aware of is some alloys change hardness over time (which can range from days to months) so testing a cast bullet might not indicate what it will be when you get round to using it.

    Think you will find your old wheel weights had some arsenic in them which means you can heat treat bullets after casting should you so wish (caveat: from memory !)

    Brgds Terry
    Hi,
    I have never heard of lead/tin alloy changing hardness. Copper age hardens as well as work hardens.

    If you have any information about lead/tin alloy hardening it would be interesting to see it.

    Wheel weights are made of zinc now. It shrinks unevenly when it cools and is not suitable for casting bullets.

    Atb

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    25,321
    Lead tin alloys age soften over time before stabilising.

    http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...Metallurgy.htm



    I've been casting some hollowpoint bullets, massive hollowpoints, with recylced air rifle pellet lead and they are too soft.

    The nose section collapses as I put them through the lubrisizer.

    I have some pure lead and some linotype and so think some experimentation is in order.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Warminster, Wilts
    Posts
    632
    Enfield2B,

    lead tin alloys do not to any degree change over time, at least the rations I use for BPCR's, between 16:1 for PP and 20:1 by weight for canuallared/GG bullets (but just starting to play with PP)

    But the OP was talking Linotype,which has antimony and tin, all be it more antimony that tin.

    If you look up articles by Dan Theodore you will find some good info. Bottom line if alloying lead, tin and antimony is never have more tin that antimony, (here you go, for some info: http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24564 )

    Re. wheel weights - concur, that is why I said 'old wheel weights', zinc has no real place in cast 'boolits' IMHO

    Brgds Terry

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    25,321
    Tin/Lead alloys do age soften, they stablise after a while but that does not mean they do not age soften from just cast.

    Lead-tin (Pb-Sn). Which metals do we add to lead to make better bullet metal and why? The first and most obvious need here is to make the alloy harder, but there are other factors that play into this answer as well. Historically, tin was used because it was readily available in pure form, mixed easily with molten lead and contributed desirable properties to both the molten and solidified alloy (castability and hardness, respectively). Tin also increases the hardness of the alloy but does not interfere with the malleability of lead (a key point that we‘ll return to). Tin lowers the viscosity and surface tension of the molten alloy, allowing it to fill out the mould more effectively, resulting in a higher quality bullet. Tin is limited in its ability to harden lead, achieving a maximum hardness of about 16 BHN at 40% tin.

    These binary lead-tin alloys undergo slight to moderate age softening upon storage (1-2 BHN units), with the harder alloys undergoing more of a change than the softer alloys. The hardness of a binary lead-tin alloy generally stabilizes after about 2-3 weeks.

    Heat treating binary lead-tin alloys does not provide any change in hardness. At typical lead pot temperatures, lead and tin are infinitely miscible with one another, at the eutectic temperature (361 F) tin is still soluble to the tune of 19%, but at room temperature tin is still soluble in lead at the 2% level, meaning that as the bullet cools down there is significant precipitation of a tin-rich solid solution in the form of granules and needles in a matrix of lead-rich solid solution.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Warminster, Wilts
    Posts
    632
    RB,

    Concur, which is why I said 'lead tin alloys do not to any degree change over time' as not many folks cast bullets and shoot them the next day (well I don't) and if you look at the link I posted you will see Dan T's results for the alloys I listed, 20 & 16:1, after 2 or 3 days 'that's it' they do not change.

    I have found this to be accurate by measuring the harness of both bullets before loading , which could be months after casting, and pre mixed ingots , which could be many months after smelting (I premix quite a few kg using commercially pure lead and tin). FYI I use the Cabin Tree tester (see here: http://www.texas-mac.com/Evaluations...s_Testers.html ) which is now made by this bunch: http://cowboybullets.com/Lead-Tester_p_57.html

    Brgds

    Terry

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    25,321
    Quote Originally Posted by thibben View Post
    RB,

    Concur, which is why I said 'lead tin alloys do not to any degree change over time' as not many folks cast bullets and shoot them the next day (well I don't) and if you look at the link I posted you will see Dan T's results for the alloys I listed, 20 & 16:1, after 2 or 3 days 'that's it' they do not change.

    I have found this to be accurate by measuring the harness of both bullets before loading , which could be months after casting, and pre mixed ingots , which could be many months after smelting (I premix quite a few kg using commercially pure lead and tin). FYI I use the Cabin Tree tester (see here: http://www.texas-mac.com/Evaluations...s_Testers.html ) which is now made by this bunch: http://cowboybullets.com/Lead-Tester_p_57.html

    Brgds

    Terry
    Very interesting, thank you.

    I like that Cabin tree tester very much, particularly as it seems to be able to measure run out as well...
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Warminster, Wilts
    Posts
    632
    RB,

    Bit off topic but what do you 'shoot'? I'm assuming BPCR as ML and gallery do not require that much 'fineness' (no slur intended, just an observation!)

    T

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    25,321
    I have obtained a Milhec copy of a H&G 30 cal mould that produces something called the "Ness Glanceproof (or) Safety" bullet: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...e-proof-boolit

    It has a hollowpoint which is almost .200 wide at the mouth and as deep as the bottom lube groove and is designed to come apart completely, minimising the chance of significant pass through and ricochet.
    The hollow portion is the part which is getting squashed by the nose punch of the luberisizer and hence my need for a stronger alloy.

    I suspect antimony might be the way forward to promote fragmentation.
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    3,509
    Quote Originally Posted by thibben View Post
    Enfield2B,

    lead tin alloys do not to any degree change over time, at least the rations I use for BPCR's, between 16:1 for PP and 20:1 by weight for canuallared/GG bullets (but just starting to play with PP)

    But the OP was talking Linotype,which has antimony and tin, all be it more antimony that tin.

    If you look up articles by Dan Theodore you will find some good info. Bottom line if alloying lead, tin and antimony is never have more tin that antimony, (here you go, for some info: http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24564 )

    Re. wheel weights - concur, that is why I said 'old wheel weights', zinc has no real place in cast 'boolits' IMHO

    Brgds Terry
    Thanks for the link it is interesting.

    The method I use to measure lead hardness seems to work close enough for bullet casting.

    Randy:- Lead airgun pellets measure out the same as lead waterpipe on the drop test.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    25,321
    So almost pure lead then Enfield?
    "An infinite number of monkeys banging away at type writers for an infinite period of time will eventually reproduce Hamlet" Thanks to discussion forums we now know this to be untrue.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •