I am concerned about some Diana T06 pistons (A bit scary)

[Barryg]

This is not the first time that I have seen this now, the piston stem seperating from the piston body, it is only a few but a few to many, any suggestions on a fix?

I can post more pics but this is the latest report that I have seen, have a look at the vid and see what the piston stem does some way into the vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyNX...youtu.be&t=129

[Hsing-ee]

Holy crap, that looks scarey! Aren't those huge crimps on the piston front supposed to hold it in, or what keeps it from flying apart? If that happened with the rifle cocked it would fire without the trigger being pressed, extremely dangerous.

[bighit]

And some say HW 77 rifles are dangerous as they have no real anti bear trap

[Barryg]

And some say HW 77 rifles are dangerous as they have no real anti bear trap

Yes and some deny that no ABT is dangerous, but I won't deny something if its the truth even if its my favorite, but would like suggestions for a fix.

[tinbum]

Yep, I did have a brief dalliance with Diana rifles, but you are right. They're shit.

[Barryg]

Yep, I did have a brief dalliance with Diana rifles, but you are right. They're shit.

Can you be more specific and helpful ?

[NickG]

Yep, I did have a brief dalliance with Diana rifles, but you are right. They're shit.

Second that

[Black Beard]

Yep, I did have a brief dalliance with Diana rifles, but you are right. They're shit.

Didn't I buy one from you? :-)

[bighit]

Yes and some deny that no ABT is dangerous, but I won't deny something if its the truth even if its my favorite, but would like suggestions for a fix.

I bet lots of rifles don't have bear traps.And people still use them with no missing digits . its called common sense and hold the lever or barrel at all times when cocking .

I know my Relum tornado did not have one when it tried to chop my finger off with the barrel and the under lever . That was my fault ,I screwed up . I hit the trigger when closing the underlever . my finger should not have been near the trigger and the safety catch on (if it had one ,was so long ago).

Imagine cocking that RWS 48 and it then lets go AFTER you have closed the side lever ? would a beartrap stop it firing?

Dodgy sears( yes it was only a small batch ) And now a latch rod that falls out of the piston (possibly only a small batch) ,They still got passed the QC .

I would rather have a HW77 with a flimsy bear trap than a rifle that could go off with out pulling the trigger . Wouldn't you ?




i would be looking to get a new one that did not fall apart rather than bodge a fix that could fail at any time

[Barryg]

I bet lots of rifles don't have bear traps.And people still use them with no missing digits . its called common sense and hold the lever or barrel at all times when cocking .

I know my Relum tornado did not have one when it tried to chop my finger off with the barrel and the under lever . That was my fault ,I screwed up . I hit the trigger when closing the underlever . my finger should not have been near the trigger and the safety catch on (if it had one ,was so long ago).

Imagine cocking that RWS 48 and it then lets go AFTER you have closed the side lever ? would a beartrap stop it firing?

Dodgy sears( yes it was only a small batch ) And now a latch rod that falls out of the piston (possibly only a small batch) ,They still got passed the QC .

I would rather have a HW77 with a flimsy bear trap than a rifle that could go off with out pulling the trigger . Wouldn't you ?




i would be looking to get a new one that did not fall apart rather than bodge a fix that could fail at any time

Two wrongs don't make a right

There is a solution Diana could use their old set up






but I just thought you guys might have some suggestions for the new owners

[look no hands]

Holy crap, that looks scarey! Aren't those huge crimps on the piston front supposed to hold it in, or what keeps it from flying apart? If that happened with the rifle cocked it would fire without the trigger being pressed, extremely dangerous.

No the huge crimps just hold the front of the piston (basically where the seal mounts on) onto the cylinder, the only time I've seen a wobbly piston rod was on my XS208 but you wouldn't be too surprised with that as it's a cheap Chinese copy, I replaced the whole thing with a T06 conversion kit, certainly makes you wonder, I'm a little worried now as I had the T06 trigger sear break on me last year.

May be what Diana need to do is what Air Arms do and thread the end of the rod and Loctite it into the piston seal carrier, I'm sure I read recently that the new pistons where better made since they have been taken over, it was something to do with the crimping and the issue of them being out of round?

It still seams that the good old loading tap or rotary breech system is still the safest design, thinking about it I've never had any issues with the rods on any of my Mercs/'sporters and they are a very old design and I admit they are not always the best of quality built (pistons being made out of rolled metal sheet for example).

I probably shouldn't say this but Tony Wall at SFS once told me that someone from one of the shooting mags once went to the Diana factory and was allowed to go around the factory on his own, when he got to the testing department, the QC guy shot a rifle and it was all over the place and it was then put in the "PASS" rack, when the mag guy looked closer at the rifle, the barrel was bent (or something like that), he was shocked at what he saw and went and complained but that rifle still stayed in the "PASS" rack and nothing was done about it (not sure if any of that is true but it's what I was told).

I still stand by what I say about German products (be it whatever), people seem to think that everything that comes out of Germany is the best quality and engineered but it's far from the truth.

Pete

[Hsing-ee]

No the huge crimps just hold the front of the piston (basically where the seal mounts on) onto the cylinder, the only time I've seen a wobbly piston rod was on my XS208 but you wouldn't be too surprised with that as it's a cheap Chinese copy, I replaced the whole thing with a T06 conversion kit, certainly makes you wonder, I'm a little worried now as I had the T06 trigger sear break on me last year.

May be what Diana need to do is what Air Arms do and thread the end of the rod and Loctite it into the piston seal carrier, I'm sure I read recently that the new pistons where better made since they have been taken over, it was something to do with the crimping and the issue of them being out of round?

I still stand by what I say about German products (be it whatever), people seem to think that everything that comes out of Germany is the best quality and engineered but it's far from the truth.

Pete

Is the piston rod just held in the piston by those splines? It CAN'T just be a friction fit, that would be insane. Certainly any other maker would thread the rod and screw it in tight with locking agent like you say.

The German thing is right, I have had poor finishing on Weihrauchs of all generations, not all of them but certainly one in four or so on average, or 100% in the case of the HW30. One HW30 had a cocking slot that was cut out of parallel with the cylinder! Air Arms does not seem to have this QC problem, although they always need relubing.

The only springers which really do (or did) not need attention and which were perfect out of the box were the old 10 meter match rifles. Models like the Feinwerkbau 150/300 series, the Anschutz 380 and the Original 75 were built up to a standard and not down to a price. Also, they were sold to shooters who could really shoot and knew their onions, and who would spot imperfections on the first few shots. They could not get away with 'extended breaking in periods' while the grinding surfaces smoothed out - there is a blog somewhere with an American HW99S owner using both hands on the barrel to cock the rifle while the galling sorted itself out!

BSAs for the most part seem to be well made, but the designs are less than they should be, always working on the 'good enough' rather than 'best' principle and that business of the Maxigrip and the 13.8mm scope rail! oh my lord. I will try to get hold of a SuperStar at some point for my collection and maybe a Cadet... it is a shame as some BSAs are inspired, like the Buccaneer and the RB2 but they never executed the designs quite right. If you want a good example of how they could have been done, compare a Mk 2 Airsporter with a German Falke 80, which is a copy of it. The Falke has the precise trigger the Airsporter lacks and it exudes top-level quality. BSA could have been Air Arms, but lacked the confidence or the clarity needed. They did make some awful rifles as well, like the BSA Merlin, now that is a POS, and I had a go with a gasram break barrel (a Super Shit?)a couple of years ago that was worse than any SMK I have tried, awful trigger and grouped like a cylinder-bore shottie.

[look no hands]

Is the piston rod just held in the piston by those splines? It CAN'T just be a friction fit, that would be insane. Certainly any other maker would thread the rod and screw it in tight with locking agent like you say.

The German thing is right, I have had poor finishing on Weihrauchs of all generations, not all of them but certainly one in four or so on average, or 100% in the case of the HW30. One HW30 had a cocking slot that was cut out of parallel with the cylinder! Air Arms does not seem to have this QC problem, although they always need relubing.

The only springers which really do (or did) not need attention and which were perfect out of the box were the old 10 meter match rifles. Models like the Feinwerkbau 150/300 series, the Anschutz 380 and the Original 75 were built up to a standard and not down to a price. Also, they were sold to shooters who could really shoot and knew their onions, and who would spot imperfections on the first few shots. They could not get away with 'extended breaking in periods' while the grinding surfaces smoothed out - there is a blog somewhere with an American HW99S owner using both hands on the barrel to cock the rifle while the galling sorted itself out!

BSAs for the most part seem to be well made, but the designs are less than they should be, always working on the 'good enough' rather than 'best' principle and that business of the Maxigrip and the 13.8mm scope rail! oh my lord. I will try to get hold of a SuperStar at some point for my collection and maybe a Cadet... it is a shame as some BSAs are inspired, like the Buccaneer and the RB2 but they never executed the designs quite right. If you want a good example of how they could have been done, compare a Mk 2 Airsporter with a German Falke 80, which is a copy of it. The Falke has the precise trigger the Airsporter lacks and it exudes top-level quality. BSA could have been Air Arms, but lacked the confidence or the clarity needed. They did make some awful rifles as well, like the BSA Merlin, now that is a POS, and I had a go with a gasram break barrel (a Super Shit?)a couple of years ago that was worse than any SMK I have tried, awful trigger and grouped like a cylinder-bore shottie.

Like you say, I remember when I did a bit of 10m shooting in the mid 80's and the Walther sidelevers we used back then where pretty damn bombproof and oozed quality even though they had seen some action and abuse.

BSA also lacked the funding from Gamo, they always seemed to drop the good rifles for the crappier ones and then build them down, they've gone for the Poundland approach, they've not made anything decent since the Superstars and RB2's etc I'm afraid to say.

Pete