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Thread: Where do .22 and .177 come from? ...and Why?

  1. #31
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    Invention of the waisted pellet... you are right it's been said by someone that it's after 1900.......

    Advertised in Cox's catalogue 1902, not my research but seen it elsewhere

  2. #32
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    Can't help with .22 but I have a Markham Pacific in 0.18, allegedly from 1885 onwards. As well as the calibration it is remarkable for the lack of metal content. It's in marked contrast to my Giffard from the same period.

    The only ancient continental linear measurement I can recall is a pipee - the distance a Frenchman would walk while smoking a pipe although it could just as accurately and meaningfully be the time elapsed. Hardly helpful, I know.

    ATB. Mick
    When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns .

  3. #33
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    'Our' original thread (started 5/1/18 in GENERAL) traced the start of rimfire cartridges to Flobert, and the development and history of .22 in rimfire...
    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....is-the-history

    ...so i'm interested to see where the rest of the series goes and whether they have any ideas mentioned on the 'first .22 airgun' as i'm fairly convinced we've pegged that successfully down to the Kalamazoo:
    http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....un-If-NOT-WHAT


    I can't see where the rest of the 'article' is. Is it available yet? or am i being very thick and not spotting where i should be clicking to get there...

  5. #35
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    Establishment of .22 standard in US air rifles

    The early history of airgun calibers in the US is complicated with a lot of variation and no real standard. All the barrels were smooth bore, intended for slugs and darts. The slugs with a tuff of cotton on the rear is intended to make it possible to shoot in an oversized barrel. These guns also appeared intended more for use in shooting galleries than for individual use.

    The pellet did not exist in the US until the introduction of the BSA. The BSA was the first rifled airgun sold in the US. The next rifled airgun in the US was the Crosman in 1923. The Crosman rifled .22 stood alone among US manufacturers until the late '30s when Benjamin finally introduced their own rifled .22 models.

    So, at least in the US, the .22 pellet standard was started by the BSA rifle which was picked up by Crosman in 1923 and then confirmed forever by Benjamin some 17 years later.

    The .177 caliber didn't really come into existence in the US until the mid '30s when Benjamin introduced their rifled pistols in that caliber; Benjamin .177 caliber pellets being imported from England. Crosman didn't produce a .177 rifle until 1940. So, again, the .177 caliber pellet standard came to the US from England.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DT Fletcher View Post
    The early history of airgun calibers in the US is complicated with a lot of variation and no real standard. All the barrels were smooth bore, intended for slugs and darts. The slugs with a tuff of cotton on the rear is intended to make it possible to shoot in an oversized barrel. These guns also appeared intended more for use in shooting galleries than for individual use.

    The pellet did not exist in the US until the introduction of the BSA. The BSA was the first rifled airgun sold in the US. The next rifled airgun in the US was the Crosman in 1923. The Crosman rifled .22 stood alone among US manufacturers until the late '30s when Benjamin finally introduced their own rifled .22 models.

    So, at least in the US, the .22 pellet standard was started by the BSA rifle which was picked up by Crosman in 1923 and then confirmed forever by Benjamin some 17 years later.

    The .177 caliber didn't really come into existence in the US until the mid '30s when Benjamin introduced their rifled pistols in that caliber; Benjamin .177 caliber pellets being imported from England. Crosman didn't produce a .177 rifle until 1940. So, again, the .177 caliber pellet standard came to the US from England.
    I didn't realise the BSA was the first rifled airgun sold in the US. I always thought the Haviland and Gun combined cartridge and air rifle was rifled?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DT Fletcher View Post
    The early history of airgun calibers in the US is complicated with a lot of variation and no real standard. All the barrels were smooth bore, intended for slugs and darts. The slugs with a tuff of cotton on the rear is intended to make it possible to shoot in an oversized barrel. These guns also appeared intended more for use in shooting galleries than for individual use.

    The pellet did not exist in the US until the introduction of the BSA. The BSA was the first rifled airgun sold in the US. The next rifled airgun in the US was the Crosman in 1923. The Crosman rifled .22 stood alone among US manufacturers until the late '30s when Benjamin finally introduced their own rifled .22 models.

    So, at least in the US, the .22 pellet standard was started by the BSA rifle which was picked up by Crosman in 1923 and then confirmed forever by Benjamin some 17 years later.

    The .177 caliber didn't really come into existence in the US until the mid '30s when Benjamin introduced their rifled pistols in that caliber; Benjamin .177 caliber pellets being imported from England. Crosman didn't produce a .177 rifle until 1940. So, again, the .177 caliber pellet standard came to the US from England.
    I never realized that Benjamin didnít rifle barrels on their rifles till late 1930ís

  8. #38
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    Not saying anyone is wrong... but...

    Smith states in his Gas, Air and Spring Guns of the World book on page 34, very last line, "Accuracy is excellent, as the barrels were well-rifled evn in 1871."

    It seems Smith was referring to his own Quackenbush combination guns (a Haviland and Gunn model) dated 1871 amd 1878.

    So it would seem that he had hands on experience of an 1871 rifled airgun.
    Last edited by JimmieDee; 19-01-2018 at 06:38 PM.

  9. #39
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    The combination airgun may well have been rifled but it was rifled for the .22 rimfire not for pellets, since pellets did not exist in the US at the time, so, it only shot slugs or darts.

    The pivotal event was when BSA combined a rifled barrel with the diablo pellet.

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